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Becoming Whole
Relationships and sexuality are areas of life that can be beautiful or confusing, life-giving, or painful. Becoming Whole is a conversational podcast for men, women, and families seeking to draw nearer to Jesus as they navigate topics like sexual integrity, relational healing, spiritual health, and so much more.
Becoming Whole
Remember 2 - Stones in the River
In this episode, James, a spiritual coach, and Kyle Bowman, Director of Ministry discuss the profound impact of remembering God on growing in sexual integrity. They explore the importance of remembering one's origins, the transformational power of recalling God's presence and love, and how integrating these memories can realign our heart postures. They also delve into the significance of marking milestones, using tangible icons, and scripture to anchor our faith, and share personal anecdotes and practical tips for cultivating a habit of remembering God in our everyday lives.
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
Remembering is a key part of growing in sexual integrity. Some of you guys may have realized this, but our ministry is run by Joshua Glazier, who is or was an English major and he loves words and wordplay. So this word remember we talked about it last week. We explored Regeneration's origin story with Alan Menninger. We explored Regeneration's origin story with Alan Menninger the story of God remembering Alan, meeting him, beginning a process of remembering him, putting him back together, reintegrating him. You see the wordplay now. And so today I'm joined by Kyle Bowman. I'm James, I'm a spiritual coach here, and Kyle Bowman is our director of ministry and our DC Metro director. Kyle, so glad to have you on today.
Speaker 2:Glad to be here to talk with you on this subject today.
Speaker 1:One of the things I loved about recording with Josh recently for the episode one was just remembering. This is this word that God has put on our heart to remember our origins, to remember Him. So we're going to talk some about that today. But how would you say, kyle, that remembering God starting with remembering God? How does remembering God get at the heart of growing in sexual integrity, of being put back together?
Speaker 2:I think, at the heart of remembering God continues to propel your process forward, because there's a lot of things we can remember and sometimes the things that we remember are not beneficial for us to remember. But what the beauty of remembering God is remembering who he is in your life, remembering that he is for you, he's not against you, remembering that he wants to be your biggest champion and walk with you as you go forward in this process. Walk with you as you go forward in this process. He's not just this bystander, this watching you try to feel your way through and bumble your way through, getting to wholeness. He wants to be the one who is working in you and empowering you to get to a place of sexual integrity. And so, when you can remember what he has done for you, I think, even if it means taking the time to remember that he called you into relationship with him, sometimes I think you know we can. You know we get into this life. We are, you know we get into this life.
Speaker 2:We are, you know, following Jesus, and I think sometimes we forget, like what it was like when you had that moment where you go. You know what I'm going to follow Jesus and I believe that he is the son of God, I believe that he was raised from the dead and that I will have eternal life. By believing in him, like sometimes, I think, we forget even something that poignant, like we might even think about where we came from. Right, you know, it's easy to go. Oh yeah, you know. You remember. I remember when I was fill in the blank, but not just that sweet moment when the light bulb came on and the Lord opened your heart to reveal himself to you.
Speaker 1:There's so much in scripture about remembering God and I think part of why God commands the Israelites and the people of God over and over, part of why he commands them to remember him, is because we get this revelation, we get truth about who God is, and we get I don't know if any of our listeners I imagine many of you have had those moments where something has opened up and you're like I literally had this yesterday. I was listening to this awesome interview about near-death experiences something I've never really explored too much, but a guy has studied them for 30 years. Explore too much, but a guy has studied them for 30 years. And the picture of Jesus, that person after person, whether they were Hindu or atheist or Christian, regardless of where they were from on earth, the picture of Jesus that they encountered, the person of Jesus I should say that they encountered in these near-death experiences, which fully corresponded with scripture, it was so beautiful, it brought me to tears and I've had so many of those kinds of moments.
Speaker 1:I wish that it was a daily thing. Maybe it needs to become more of this daily habit of remembering, but when we're reminded of what God's really like, what his love is really like, what his character is really like it can actually realign our heart postures. I don't know about you, kyle, but so many of the people I work with in coaching have trouble approaching God after falling into sexual sin, and I think part of that is I mean, there's probably a lot behind that, but part of that is the image of God that comes to their mind is one that's not actually accurate. It's not a God that they can come to for grace and for mercy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very true. They see the face of dad, they see the face of mom, they see the face of uncle, so-and-so, and it's hard to remove that image being superimposed on who God is. That image being superimposed on who God is Because, ultimately, those within our family of origin however, you know, we were brought up whether it was with mom and dad, grandparents or whatever they are the ones who are supposed to image the heart of God to those they are raising, of God to those they are raising. And so when that gets all twisted up, it is so hard to see. It's easy to think well, if I've messed up, then there's punishment, or there is distance, or maybe I'm shunned altogether and not spoken to for weeks and weeks on end, and so it's hard to remove that. And, for those who are listening, one of the ways that I would love to offer in trying to help to realign that image, offer in trying to help to realign that image, especially when you're dealing with sexual integrity, a lot of times what you can remember is these pictures that you've seen before, these acts that you've been involved in before. But what if you can take that imagination and take that remembering and remember the story of the prodigal son and remember, even as you think about that story and you think about the, what the prodigal son must have felt. Can you even remember times that you may have felt that way? But then shift your memories toward?
Speaker 2:But look at how the father responded. The prodigal son wasn't anybody special. He wasn't, you know, some super religious person that God should show more favor to. He's just like us. And so what if you can remember the goodness of God through that? And maybe it means you close your eyes and you put yourself in the place of the prodigal and feel all of those feelings and emotions and what it must be like to come back filthy, dirty and smelly. And yet the father says I've got to throw a party and you know what. I'm going to make sure you have right clothes for the party. I'm going to give you a robe, I'm going to give you a ring, some shoes, hug and kiss you and present you back into this fold. What might that do for you in remembering who God is and how he wants you to remember Him?
Speaker 1:I think what we're talking about is what Christians throughout the centuries have called icons, and I know that there's a lot of, you know, disagreement about exactly what an icon is or whatever. But an icon is just something that points us and reminds us of God. It's something that we're meant to see through to better see God. I actually have downstairs a copy a poster that's framed of Rembrandt's "'Return of the Prodigal Son' painting. Henry Nouwen wrote an awesome book. Tim Keller wrote an awesome book about the story of the prodigal son.
Speaker 1:But these kinds of images, this kind of beauty, engaging symbols like the cross or the crucifix can remind us of what God is like, and there's something beautiful to that. Obviously, people are also meant to be these icons. They're meant to point us to be. We're images of God. We show something of what God is like, so people can do this as well. But I think there's something really profound, especially for those of us with sexual brokenness, of engaging, beauty of engaging. These are called the transcendentals throughout history, but the good, the true and the beautiful, because sexual brokenness is rooted in unreality. It's rooted in twisted versions of each of those twisting of truth, twisting of goodness, twisting of beauty. There's something about entering into God's creation or beautiful art or profound symbols. That can maybe be part of the undoing of that, like, basically, when we're entering into the good, the true and the beautiful, we're remembering what is real, that which has come from God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and you know some people may feel a level of discomfort with that, right, you know you may figure like, okay, but everything I need is right here, it's right here in the Bible and I don't need anything else. And absolutely Scripture has what we need. But God is a creator and he has created some very beautiful things. He has some very beautiful things he has, you know, to take in a beautiful sunset or sunrise and to know that that is something that God has created for us to experience, to be able to walk in nature and to see beautiful green trees or beautiful different varieties of birds and things of that nature. To experience a painting. Right, Like you said, the experience of painting and experiencing beautiful art, whether it is a painting, whether it is a sculpture.
Speaker 2:Hey, for some parents it might be when your kids put that paint on their hands and stuck it on a piece of paper and said put this on the refrigerator. Right, there's beauty in that and God wants you to be able to see, through his creation, his love for us and care for us and to draw us into wanting more of that, as opposed to, as you stated earlier, instead of turning to the false things, entering into the things of beauty that God has created. Entering into the things of beauty that God has created that point toward him. There's a quote by Paul David Tripp that I love. He says every pleasurable thing should point to the one who created it. So that means when you see that beautiful sunset, it should point to God. When you see that those stick figures that your kids drew, and they were so proud of them and wanted you to have them, should point you to God, and so that means that any of your sexual activity should also point you to God activity should also point you to God.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of people through history have said that there's two books God, where one is the Bible and the other book is nature, and there's something profound about learning to read both. Well, reading scripture, as God intended, but also reading this natural world he's created. But speaking of Scripture, are there any Scriptures that come to your mind that help you, whether it's remembering God or remembering what God's created as good, true and beautiful, remembering reality?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think if you look at Psalm 77, verse 11, it says I will remember the deeds of the Lord, yes, I will remember your wonders of old. And even if you go into 12, where it says I will ponder all your work and meditate on your mighty deeds. And to just pause there and know that the psalmist was really struggling and in the midst of his struggle he was able to go. But wait, like I've got to remember what God has done, and it should hopefully outweigh all of the bad, and it doesn't discount that the bad is bad, but what it means is that there is hope because the Lord can get you on the other side, and so I think that is so important to make a practice of remembering. And the thing about it is there's some cool stuff that gets rewired in your brain when you can do that too.
Speaker 1:Something about like, even in laments you said Psalm 77, it's a psalm of lament we can be moved toward. It's a psalm of lament we can be moved toward there's something deeper going on. There's something, there's someone who has done amazing things Even. What's the difference, kyle, between remembering what God has done and kind of whitewashing our sadness or lament, or skipping over our grief lament or skipping over our grief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean to whitewash. It almost acts like you act like it didn't exist, or you say, oh, that wasn't so bad. Or maybe what you do is you compare your thing to somebody else's right. Oh well, at least mine wasn't as bad as so-and-so, Mine wasn't as bad as so-and-so.
Speaker 2:And God never calls us to that. And you can go through the Psalms and see how the Psalmists cried out when they thought that there was injustice, when they thought that, listen, god, I think you forgot about me, because I'm experiencing this, this and this, because I'm experiencing this, this and this. And God has never called us to whitewash. But what he calls us to is, as we remember, we can acknowledge the pain, and because God helps us to that, he allows us to acknowledge the pain. It also takes us a step closer toward him Because, ultimately, he is the one who can meet us in the pain. He is the comforter. And so as we step toward him and give him that pain and take our time to lament, then we have this opportunity. As we release that he wants to put more of himself into us, and that gives us this opportunity to draw closer to him.
Speaker 1:It's almost like we're putting our narrative, like our current narrative, what's going on in our mind into the context of his grand narrative, of his meta-narrative of all that he is, all that he's doing and, like you're saying, these aren't meant to be platitudes or cliches that someone speaks over you because they can't handle your sadness. The Psalms are incredibly honest. I talk about this all the time with the guys that I coach. The Psalms are incredibly honest. There's a Keller quote, I can't exactly recall, but he says that they're like pre-reasoned, they're like before you even think things through really well, they're just like these honest bursts of emotion. I mean, think about Psalm 22. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Jesus said it from the cross and in that moment you know, a lot of theologians believe there was a sense in which God turned his face from Jesus so that Jesus could bring us into the fold of God. But the psalmist who wrote that like did God truly forsake him? No, like God has not actually forsaken any of us again. Besides, maybe in that moment on the cross when Jesus bore our sin. And so that's not like, hey, let me gather this theological truth that like, god has truly forsaken me. But that's how honest we can be. That's how honest we can be.
Speaker 1:Psalm 88 is one of those Psalms. It's so, it's. It doesn't even end with a note of hope. There's actually two Psalms I think one of them is in the 30s, I can't remember the other one but Psalm 88 ends without that note because there's just this like rawness.
Speaker 1:But most Psalms of lament, most Psalms of lament, come back to a place of and God, I'm reminding myself right now. I'm remembering what you're like and what you do. I'm remembering what you're like and what you do. And so, in this context of we're remembering God, we're remembering what's real, we're kind of going around this aspect of. We're also therefore needing to remember what's happened to us. We're remembering our wounds and we take those wounds our starting point is into a place of lament. Ideally it's with God and community. That's hopefully becoming more of a reality in many of our circles. I know that for most of us we've dealt with sadness on our own for so much of life, but bringing our lament into God, into community. But, kyle, can you back us up a second and help us understand why it's even worth remembering our wounds? Shouldn't I just kind of leave that stuff in the past and focus on God's goodness or glory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think remembering our wounds helps us to frame them properly. Give me one second here. I don't want to cough over everybody, okay, excuse me you all, but it helps us to reframe our circumstances. So, for instance, you can remember, so that you can see what are the factors that have contributed to your unwanted sexual behavior, your unwanted sexual behavior, what are these things that may have influenced you to go in the direction of sin you have chosen to go into? And it's not an exercise of trying to blame shift, but it's an exercise of acknowledging, as you acknowledge your own culpability, you also acknowledge the things that have affected you, because God is not looking past, that. He understands the things that have affected you and you can do it in a healthy way. It's not this oh, I'm such an awful person and you know I'm just scum and you know I'll never this is all I'll ever be. That's not healthy.
Speaker 2:But this is being able to be curious, I think is a good word is to be curious about. Are there some things that I have taken in that really have affected the way I see the world and how I chose to deal with those things? That's really important. And as you walk through that and as you become curious about that, you should also remember to be kind to yourself in it, because the enemy would love for you to turn in on yourself and to say, oh, that was your fault when that happened. Maybe if you didn't do X, y, z then they wouldn't have done this to you. The enemy wants to get in there and to kind of make you condemn yourself in that.
Speaker 2:So you have to show some kindness to yourself as you go through it and to be able to say, and to be able to say Lord, maybe you don't realize the influence someone had over you.
Speaker 2:Maybe you didn't realize how vulnerable you were, you didn't realize how much more powerful someone was over you, over you, and so, or maybe you didn't realize, gosh, I I longed for, you know, to have these good, healthy relationships within my home. But you know I was always put down or I was always, you know, said things. There were things said about me that you know that I would never be any good or whatever those things are. You want to just step back and to be able to say you know what those things were hurtful. And as a child growing up, you have to figure out how to work that stuff out when you're not even mature enough to do so, and so that's what I mean by being kind to yourself. You don't have to take on the responsibility of some things that you have experienced. You can't. You don't have to take that on and say that that's your fault.
Speaker 1:And even things that are things that you've done, things you've chosen to do, sins you've done. God is actually kind to us. It says in scripture God's kindness leads us to repentance. It's not his condemnation, it's not his accusation that stuff's from the enemy. It's God's kindness and one of the fruit of the spirit, which you could also say are attributes of God, because they're the fruit of the Holy Spirit, who is God, is kindness. And so it might sound funky like be kind to myself, whether it's the things done to me like you're talking about Kyle or the sins I've done, doesn't that? Doesn't that that kind of grates against many of our ways of viewing ourselves? But actually, what you're doing is you're appropriating, you're, you're taking on, you're receiving God's kindness toward you, which is actually what leads us to repentance. So, as you're remembering your wounds, as you're remembering your own sins, this is not an invitation, then, to go into self-flagellation mode. This is actually an invitation to receiving God's kindness and to kind of appropriating it into your own view of yourself and how you engage with yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I think there's also now, there's this opportunity to then. How do you mark remembering?
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell us a little bit about that, because it seems like in scripture there are similar to these icons we talked about earlier. There are these moments I think of. I think it was right after the Israelites crossed the Jordan they were told to make an Ebenezer, they were called to make a little monument of remembering what God had done. And so we see, these are kind of curious because I think for most of us we don't come from a culture that maybe has a lot of Ebenezers or we don't talk about that much. But what have you found helpful in finding ways to remember like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about the scripture you're referring to is Joshua 4. And it says and Joshua 4. And you know it says and Joshua said to them Pass on before the ark of the Lord, your God, into the midst of the Jordan and take up, each of you, a stone upon his shoulders, according to the number of the tribes of the people of Israel, that this may be a sign among you. And then he goes on to say that it is a reminder. When your children ask you what do these stones mean? You can remember. This is what the Lord did he cut off the water so that we could cross the Jordan, and that the stones would be a memorial forever to the Lord.
Speaker 2:And how might our listeners consider creating their own, ebenezers, when you have a moment in time where you have noticed, a moment in time where you have noticed Lord, I realized that I haven't acted out. It might be three days. What can you use to mark that? What will be your stone that you can get? What can you use as a marker so that you have some sort of remembrance for yourself?
Speaker 2:Maybe there's something else that is meaningful for you to use so that you remember, and I don't mean it as a way of counting right. This isn't about oh, let me count up the number of times this is about. Here's a significant moment that I want to remember what God did for me, and so you know, I've had clients who have gotten rocks, and every time that they had a significant breakthrough, they got that and they put it somewhere where they could see it and remember it. And so maybe it's not a stone, maybe it's something else that you choose to use, but I would encourage those who are listening to really consider what it means for them. What are those things they can use to help them remember, because sometimes we need help remembering, because the enemy certainly doesn't want you to remember what God has done. He wants you to remember all the sin that you've committed, and so these are things that also help combat the voice of the enemy.
Speaker 1:I still have for those who are watching with us on YouTube. I don't know if it'll show up well, but I still got this little white stone that when Kyle and our former colleague who's since retired Bob, led us through one of our programs here at Regen, they had us, I think. Did you guys actually mail these stones to us? I think you did, we did, and they represent. I've got it right in front of me on my desk. They represent the white stone with the name that God gives us, that only he knows, or something akin to that, right Kyle.
Speaker 2:That's correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it's a great little, and earlier, by the way, I was holding up a cross. I'm realizing obviously most people are just listening along, not on YouTube, but, yeah, these things can be such great symbols to remember what God is like, and so we ask you to consider friends. What can be your Ebenezer? What are ways that you can mark out milestones in your life that God's helped you to? But also what are ways you can mark out the fact that God remembers you. We said this last week God remembered Alan, our founder. He didn't forget about him in all of his years of sexual sin and brokenness, and God still remembered Alan. Brokenness and God still remembered Alan.
Speaker 1:And is there, are there any markers like? Are there any markers you can make of God remembering you A time where he showed up and it brought you to tears, or you could experience his presence or you just had a powerful moment of understanding his love? What are ways that you can bring tactile things in that remind you Just like I also have knickknacks on my desk of great trips you know from my honeymoon, or other things like that what are things that you can tangibly have, or even things that are out in nature that can remind you like okay, for some reason I had this moment of prayer and I'm going to allow this tree to remind me.
Speaker 2:Like God met me under that tree, or God met me in this place, in my house, something like that so that you remember that moment, that God used this person to minister to me, to meet me, to say what I needed, to hear, to speak that truth, and I think too, just using scripture right here, in Isaiah 49, verse 15, says and Isaiah 49, verse 15, says can a woman forget her nursing child? That she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you. And so you have a promise from God that he won't forget you. He has said that he would never leave you, he would never forsake you. So you have a promise that he's not going to forget you. And you know what's cool? The thing that he does forget is your sins. Right, they're as far as the East is from, the West is from the West, but yet he's not going to forget you. And so what are the ways that you can use some things to help you always remember that he remembers you?
Speaker 1:So beautiful. You know, at our upcoming fundraising desserts, for the first time ever, we're going to have these interactive art stations, things that connect with things we've done with our clients, things like pictures, or we might have sculptures. There's going to be a whole variety of things and this is our way of entering into like God calls us to remember. God calls us to allow these things to point us back to Him, these milestones, these markers. So, kyle, in light of all that, would you be willing to pray us out? Pray that those listening would be able to remember all the goodness of God in their lives and remember powerful works that he's done.
Speaker 2:Gracious God and Father. Sure Gracious God and Father. You have known us from the foundations of the world, before the world was even formed. God, you, the memories that they have are always their own sin or the sin that has been committed against them. Father, I pray that you would lead them toward offering those memories to you and asking you earnestly, god, to replace them with all of the ways that they can remember what you have done and the ways that you have remembered them. And so, lord, I ask that you would help them not to be concerned with what that looks like.
Speaker 2:You know whatever thing works for them, lord, with what that looks like. You know whatever thing works for them, lord, and if that's personal to them, then, god, you will use that. And so I'm so grateful, God, for all of those who are listening who will be encouraged by this. And God, help them to know that you even marked this time out for them to hear it, and that is a way of you remembering them. And so, lord, we entrust every person who will hear this podcast, whether it's the day it's released, weeks from then, months from now, even years from now, god, we thank you that you're going to use it to edify them and to glorify yourself, and I lift this prayer to you in the name of your son Jesus Christ. Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen. Thanks, Kyle.
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