Becoming Whole
Relationships and sexuality are areas of life that can be beautiful or confusing, life-giving, or painful. Becoming Whole is a conversational podcast for men, women, and families seeking to draw nearer to Jesus as they navigate topics like sexual integrity, relational healing, spiritual health, and so much more.
Becoming Whole
Should I Confess to My Spouse if they don’t want to hear it? Part 2
Secrets starve intimacy, and silence keeps marriages stuck at the surface. We pull back the curtain on what it really takes to move from hidden struggle to honest healing: starting real recovery, disclosing wisely, and building daily safety through empathy, boundaries, and rhythm. With coaches Ann Donahue, Aaron Tagert, and James Craig, we break down betrayal trauma in plain language so both partners can understand why the body panics, why the mind spins, and what actually restores a sense of safety after trust has been broken.
We walk through a practical framework for momentum. The three C’s—community, content, and coaching—establish personal sobriety, but sobriety is only the baseline. The heart of repair is becoming a safe, present partner whose actions speak louder than words. You’ll hear how empathy and attunement rewire connection, why boundaries protect what’s good, and how initiative from the struggler communicates care. We also share concrete tools: the FANOS check-in to structure weekly conversations around feelings, affirmation, needs, ownership, and sobriety or safety, plus guidance on setting frequency and limits that fit your home.
For couples facing years of secrecy, we explain full therapeutic disclosure and why it can reset the foundation with clarity and care. Instead of drifting on separate islands of “individual work,” we explore couple-centered recovery that brings partners together sooner, aligning healing and avoiding mixed signals.
If you’ve wondered whether telling the truth will end your marriage, this conversation shows how thoughtful disclosure, steady practices, and compassionate support can open a path to connection you didn’t think possible.
If this helped you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review so others can find it. Your story might be the spark for someone else’s healing.
Resources from this episode:
5 Essential Steps for Husbands in Recovery PDF
Becoming Whole Podcast: Aaron Tagert & Lyshel Burket on check-ins
Becoming Whole Podcast: Disclosures
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:
- Email us questions! info@regenerationministries.org
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
Last week we began this incredible conversation about the importance of a spouse knowing about our struggles. If we're married, perhaps even if we're engaged or in a serious dating relationship, we were addressing the question what if my spouse or partner doesn't want to hear confession? What if they don't, what if I don't think they want to know anything about my struggles? I want to take it to the grave. And on a micro level, what if what if they don't want to know on a regular basis if I'm struggling? So we're going to pick up that conversation today. And by we, I'm I'm talking about myself, James Craig, director of project spiritual coach at Regen, and Ann Donahue and Aaron Taggart, two of our awesome spiritual coaches. Ann and Aaron work together often with couples on disclosures, which we will get to at the end of uh this episode. Um, but we want to invite you back into this PDF we're working through. We've created a PDF called the Five Essential Steps for Husbands in Recovery. Now, as we're talking about on the podcast, we're trying to acknowledge that it's not just husbands who deal with sexual sin and brokenness and then have a betrayed wife. It also sometimes is wives who are dealing with sexual brokenness or infidelity and have a betrayed husband. So as you're listening along, or even as you check out that PDR PDF, it is written primarily to the men who are in our programs, the men we're coaching, but also recognizing that these same steps could be really helpful if you're a woman in recovery from sexual brokenness and you have a husband who's who's navigating it. So last week we we began diving into these questions. We got into step one of the document. Begin your personal recovery journey. Uh, set it up for success by using the three C's of effective recovery. Get in a community, recovery community, get good content and get uh coaching or counseling for that one-on-one deep dive into your story. This week, we're gonna pick back up and just briefly talk about step two because we did get into this, guys, uh, last week. Step two of our document is for those kind of somewhat unique situations where your spouse knows nothing of your struggles. Perhaps you've been struggling for years. You brought it into the marriage. They had no idea at any point that you've been struggling, or maybe they thought you were struggling while you were dating, but they figured that you had kind of worked through it. And for those who are in that spot in marriage, your spouse knows nothing. Again, we encourage you to dive right in with recovery. Start with step one. Just sign up. Even if you're not gonna get to start recovery tomorrow, sign up. Maybe you get to start in a month, but you're ready. You're ready to go. Immediately after that is step two. Your spouse needs to know about your struggles if they don't know anything yet. So I'm gonna start um with you, Aaron. Let's just say I'm a man who has three C's going, right? Uh I'm signed up for Awaken 360, which has community and content. I've signed up with Aaron, the awesome AA Ron Taggart, for some coaching to unpack my story. Aaron, isn't it better to just work on myself? Uh again, we've we've touched on this a little bit, but but why why do I why do they they need to know it all? Let's just reiterate that a little bit this week. Why does my spouse need to know it all that I'm struggling? If I'm working on myself, if I'm growing, why can't I just keep this secret?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, you're gonna stay stuck and your relationship is never going to be what it could be. Um, because you're living um you're living a sort of a secret relationship. You know something that she doesn't. Uh and so even you know, even if you feel like your late relationship's going really well, I would actually say your relationship could be so much better. Um if if if she knew and in time through healing, um, and Ann and I have seen this uh with couples that we've worked with uh through the disclosure process, that you would think, oh my gosh, I'm gonna share this information and it's the end of us. And really what it ends up being is this beautiful hard journey of healing, and it takes the couple to a place that they've never known uh in their relationship. It's such a deeper level of intimacy and trust and safety. And um, and so I would say it it's it's actually gonna hold you back if if if you don't for your own for your own sake. It's great that you're working on your recovery and things like that, but to continue to live with um that sort of secret information, you know. Again, this said last week, you know, what's not known can't be healed.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and so it's really important to bring that to the light and invite Jesus into that so that the the the husband, the wife, and the relationship can experience that that healing that that he wants for Aaron, when when you shared that, I was picturing, right, somebody walking around, and this is gonna sound intense right off the bat, um, but somebody walking around with cancer and they don't know. My hope is that they discover that they have cancer and can get the treatment and get the help and get the restoration. And um every wife deserves to know the truth, right? When you join in a two-person relationship, when you covenant together to be husband and wife for better or for worse, right? It it is sacred. It's a sacred marriage, it's a sacred attachment. And when one person doesn't know what's going on, like when somebody doesn't know they have cancer, like that is just that's just breaks my heart. So I yes, share. Right? Like when in this in the psalm, right? Um, when I kept silent, my bones wasted away. So um it's urgent actually. It's critical to share. And yes, it's terrifying and it's life-saving as at the same time.
SPEAKER_01:It's almost like for many of the men who might be in this situation, or the women as well, the idea of disclosing this information, it's almost like we're convinced that intimacy, true intimacy is not possible. Like if I'm really known in the depth of my struggle, I'm gonna be rejected. And now we're not guaranteeing, by the way, uh, to our listeners, we're not guaranteeing that the disclosure of this does not sometimes lead to to rupture and even sometimes to divorce. But by holding it in, we're actually believing the lie that if I'm truly and fully known, I will never be loved. And so I think in our, I'm even thinking about a man in his own recovery journey. There's such an importance to recognizing by hiding this information, by hiding this rupture, I'm actually reinforcing the sense that I can't be someone who has true intimacy, which is the exact lie that pornography is espousing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, I again, I just think it that sort of thinking just keeps you stuck in that cycle. Um, yeah, you know, and uh and and I think too, part of the, you know, I would say, you know, the the amount of uh shame or the role shame plays in this is a paralyzer. Um, you know, it prevents it prevents the the steps of sharing, it prevents the, you know, because you just start to fill your head with all these what ifs or the guilt and the shame of you know what you've done or and even wearing that as identity, like if they really knew me. And it's like, well, hold on, that's not really you, that's something you've done. So you need to be able to separate the the you know, the acts, the different the shame from from who you are. Um, because that uh in itself, you know, you're approaching this from a place of you know condemnation and and and those things where you know that's that's not what Christ has for you or for the fullness of your relationship. Beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's so important to get into step three in a little bit more detail. Step three of our document is that your spouse uh that you need to help your spouse get the support that they need. And that starts with you, actually. The first thing we note on the doc is that uh, again, the doc is primarily addressed to husbands. We say it will help you as the husbands to learn about betrayal trauma. To learn about the impact of a hidden uh sexual behavior that's now coming to the light. There's a rupture, um, often what is called betrayal trauma, there's a disorientation of the entire system. And so one of the recommendations we have is we have a free compass course, which is actually designed for wives who have experienced betrayal. But if you're a husband, you can you can sign up. You could watch the eight videos Ann and some of our team are teaching about these concepts, these key concepts of betrayal. Um, also recognizing that there are three major, according to AppSatz, which is an organization that works really hard on understanding betrayal trauma. There are three kind of stages your spouse might be going through. And within this idea of understanding betrayal, recognizing that sobriety is not actually what your wife's looking for. That's actually just the baseline. We have a little kind of diagram slideshow where it's like uh when you're when you're not sober, you're actually kind of at like negative 10. And being sober, being in a place of sexual integrity, relatively speaking, is kind of getting back to zero. But actually, what's needed for true recovery in your marriage is moving beyond that, becoming a man of love or in the or a woman of love toward your spouse. Anything you guys want to say about this kind of psychoeducation, if you will, of understanding this. Maybe I know we don't have time to make this an entire like lesson on what betrayal trauma is, but I'm especially curious for you, Ann, if there's just any ways that you try to help the women you walk with, or when you do get to speak to a couple, you try to help the man understand how if he's the betrayer, how his uh behaviors have impacted his wife.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think education is empowerment. And when a wife learns of um secret sexual behavior, and either she discovered it or he did disclose it to her, I mean, instantly, there's probably gonna you're probably gonna notice a trauma response on her, whether she has to sit down, she can't breathe, right? She starts to panic. Just you knowing that information is gonna really help stabilize her. First of all, if if she can get some help and understand education around what just happened to me, yeah. I feel like I, you know, I can't think, I can't eat, I can't um concentrate, like knowing those things are you know life-saving potentially. And I I love the idea of education, this the husband learning about betrayal trauma and the wife getting the support she needs to start making sense of what her body is telling her.
SPEAKER_01:It's critical. Yeah, Aaron, have you seen this be helpful for guys that you're walking with who are the ones who are the betrayer to better understand what's going on here?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think this is really where empathy comes in because you start to um you kind of put yourself in her shoes um in a way, and so the more you can um empathize with her and what she's going through, um the the more healing she's actually going to experience. Um which is really ironic. And uh, you know, so one of the things I share with with the men that I work with is that um you know the the the wives are uh are leaning on their their partner, you know, for part of their healing, you know, the ways that he's showing up, uh the ways that he's learning, the ways that you know that he's you know he's able to sit with some of her questions and not you know be super angry, right? So growing and growing in empathy in different ways is actually allowing her to experience healing. Um, and the more that she heals, the more that he heals, the more that the relationship will heal or can heal. Um, and so I think the knowledge and the kind of understanding and building up these different things all sort of create a foundation for him to understand more of what she's going through. And then the more he's aware of that, the more he can actually, you know, show up. Now it's not just like here's three easy steps to being empathetic. Like it's you know, the again, we talked about this, I think, last week, you know, where you know, that's part of the problem with pornography and different things is that we don't know how to emotionally regulate. And so we turn to external things to to you know escape that. And this is becoming more present, um, and more present for her uh in the midst of this. So you actually have this sort of kind of I don't want to say beautiful opportunity. It's just crazy, you know, like yes, you may have been the cause of of what you guys are going through, but you also get to play a really foundational role in the healing, especially for her.
SPEAKER_00:If empathy and attunement are like the gold, the gold for the gold stamp. I I can't find even the right word for it. It goes miles and miles and miles being empathetic and attuned to your wife.
SPEAKER_02:In a lot of ways, it's like it's you're able to do that in some ways almost for the first time, you know, like where you've, you know, you've maybe not seen, you know, her or him for for who they are, what you know, and and and and different things. Now you're you're sort of you have a different lens on. And so you're able to kind of see them in a different light. And and even just knowing, you know, everything that's that's gone on, you know, that you know, your your presence and your showing up. And that's why that ongoing recovery is so important, because it communicates uh behavioral truth, you know, not just the words, you know, and I I say this to guys all the time in recovery that you know your actions now will speak more than your words ever could. Um, and you know, there's the old saying, right? Actions speak louder than words. And I don't think that's ever as true as it is in recovery. You you have to show up. You have your actions have to show that very thing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and this is such an opportunity for for love for that Ephesians 5. Like, love your wife the way Christ loves us. Love, like, this is the Christian walk, guys. Like, as hard as this can be to learn to love when all we've been doing is using and and lusting, and not all we've been doing, but when that's been a big part of our life, this is actually the stuff that matters in God's eyes is to learn to love. It's not just, hey, do you know all this truth? Can you recite scripture? As great as those things are, like Aaron just said, the rubber meets the road. Your actions of love are gonna transform you, your marriage, they're gonna make all the difference. And were you gonna say something there?
SPEAKER_00:I was just gonna share a quote from um Jake Porter, and it's um, I'm gonna read it. Uh be a uh betrayed spouse trusts what they feel, not what they're told. So becoming a safe person is what their spouse is actually needing, but not telling them that they're safe, being safe. Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. This is really beneficial.
SPEAKER_01:And a key part of the safety is is boundaries, Ann. Like still within step three, get your spouse the support they need. Boundaries are so important. And one of the things we say in the doc, we don't give a lot on this, but uh again, speaking primarily here to husbands, support the boundaries she asks for, even if she doesn't ask perfectly. Boundaries will actually help you as well. It'll help you feel the consequences of your action, which will encourage your own healing and maturity. Ann, how are you thinking about boundaries? When you're walking with a wife, when when she does start engaging the three C's, which by the way is the ending of the step three is hey, she might need that one-on-one support from someone like Anne. She's gonna need uh content, perhaps. She's definitely gonna need community, things like our compass groups and wive support groups. So when you're actually meeting with women in these settings, Anne, if a if a woman has the courage to step into these healing spaces for herself, what kind of how are you thinking about boundaries? And again, recognizing uh a betrayed spouse is not always gonna ask perfectly, but why are boundaries still worthwhile, even if not done perfectly?
SPEAKER_00:I like the idea that boundaries keep what's good in and what's bad out. Like, right, if you have a fence and you are protecting your kids from a neighbor's um, you know, uh kind of wild dog, right? You're protecting what's good. You're you're keeping safe what's good. And so when she says, like, please go to your group, please protect your phone, please add safeguards onto your phone to protect your eyes, your your heart. Um, I'm having trouble sleeping at night. Would you be willing to sleep in another room? Um I can't, I can't get a good, you know, that good night's sleep. Would you would you sleep in the guest room? Um, you know, would you have accountability partners? Would you meet with them regularly? Um, would you do these things for me? And again, it's it's not they're not rules, they're protections to protect the good of the marriage, protect the good of the relationship, to provide safety and stability for her. So I they're not, I don't look on them as um uh negative, I look at them as positive.
SPEAKER_01:And they're not poured and concrete. Like you're not saying, Ann, hey, if a wife is needing space, that is for sure gonna need to be for the rest of your marriage necessarily. I mean, obviously, there could be occasionally those types of situations or, you know, whatever, but more often than not, boundaries are adjusted over time.
SPEAKER_00:And I like to think of them sometimes as like cones. Like, you know, when you're driving on a major highway and and someone puts these big orange cones around, which is steering you into the right lane, protecting you from oncoming traffic, that sometimes boundaries can move, sometimes they can adjust. They're not set in cement, but they're beneficial. And if you are listening to your wife who's asking for a boundary, take them to heart and honor. Honor her.
SPEAKER_01:Aaron, I've I've seen really cool examples of husbands that I've coached kind of on their own volition, setting up their own boundaries in like in a way of saying, like, I I remember uh for some, it might be like, I'm gonna choose to sleep on the floor next to you when I've fallen because I actually want to feel some of the weight of it. I actually want to feel like for the next two days, I'm gonna feel this because I can't even imagine what you're feeling. You know what I mean? Like, there's almost like this. Now, obviously, you could take that the wrong way and do kind of self-flagellation, but but in for some of us, there's actually healthy consequences we could even suggest to our spouse that will increase their sense of safety, will increase our empathy, will actually help us to feel it a little bit. Like, oh, that that's not just causing her pain. And it's not even just that I'm feeling the pain of her anger at me or something like that. It's actually I want to change so deeply that I'm gonna kind of set up some of those things for myself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that might even come from a conversation that you lead with her, asking her, hey, what do you need, you know, if this happens? Or, you know, so you know, the boundaries aren't necessarily have to be sort of from her, it's actually gonna be something that you lead uh in in a way, you know, the a discussion together. Um, and I think that too is just a different, totally different way of showing up. Um, you know, and so whether it's, you know, uh I don't want to say self-imposed, I don't know if that's quite the right wording, but like a um, you know, you you're leading some things, suggestions and things that you can do. I think that's great. I think that's taking initiative, you know. And I think when you're doing that, you're you're thinking about her, but you're also thinking about yourself. Like what like this is you know, putting stuff on my phone, that's gonna help me, but it's also gonna communicate something to her, you know. And so I think there's uh, you know, I I would almost say when you're thinking about some different things, take a step back. Is it just about you or something you're trying to do for yourself? Or and if it is, think about okay, well, what is also what is the benefit of that for her or for the relationship, right? So kind of get out of just this singular, and again, I think that's part of that growing in empathy journey, you know, because it's easy to say, oh yeah, this is gonna help my recovery. Great. What's it gonna do for her? And and so, you know, you want to be thinking like, yeah, right, like it's really easy to think. Uh I put a filter on my phone. Like, that's gonna be so helpful for me. Yes, it's also gonna be super helpful for her because it's communicating the you know, safety. And of course, there's other things that you know can go with that. But um, I would I would really look for opportunities where it's not just, you know, those boundaries are kind of linear, you know. Instead, how does this affect both of us?
SPEAKER_01:This is not an invitation to say, hey, the struggler gets to set all the boundaries. And the no, we're just saying, like, take that initiative. It's gonna be a blessing. Take additional initiative. Your spouse might be setting some boundaries on you, and you might be setting some boundaries on yourself because of love, because you actually want to see change. And we recognize too, boundaries don't change the heart per se, but they're important guardrails so that you can actually do the work of heart change. That's how we often say it in awaken. Like putting a filter on your phone is not going to change your heart, but it is gonna make things safer. It's gonna potentially help with sobriety. Obviously, that's the goal of them. And it's gonna make room then, when you're more sober, to do that deeper work of the heart. And so, speaking of that deeper heart work, again, I just want to reiterate within this step, if you're able to gently and wisely encourage your spouse to have the three C's for their own journey, encourage them to get community, be part of a wives group or healing groups of for betrayed spouses, get them access to good content, coaching, counseling. And again, recognizing that you telling them these things has to be done very delicately because they're like, why do I have to do all this work when you're the one who actually messed things up for us? Instead, what we're what the heart behind this is, is recognizing your spouse who's been betrayed by you is worth the care. You're probably getting some hopefully good care in groups, and you might be getting your own counsel or coaching. They're worth it as well. And if they're experiencing any of the symptoms of beef trail trauma, it could make a really big difference to walk with someone and to walk with a group. All right, we got to move on for the sake of time. Our step four is establishing check-ins. Now, we actually also have an FAQs within our awakening program. We'll link to that PDF as well. Um, if you're kind of trying to think through what does a good check-in looks like, we're not super prescriptive, like you should definitely do this and you should definitely do that, but we've got good suggestions. Another great tool that Aaron, you were telling me about is Phanos. And I've I've used this with some of the people I work with. Um, Aaron, could you just start by giving us a little overview? What is Phanos and why would you recommend that being perhaps a weekly check-in or even more often?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, yeah, so I would say the the the frequency uh we actually did um in our fall season, we we did an episode where I sat down with Lachelle Burquette and we talked about check-ins. So we'll link that in the show notes too, just to if you want a little more in-depth listen uh at what check-ins might look like. Um but uh yeah, the Phanos is good because it's it's structured, uh, and a lot of times you're maybe not sure where to enter in uh to, you know, we've never done check-ins before. Now we're doing check-ins. What what does that mean? What does it look like? How do we do this, right? Um, and so this is just super practical. Um and it comes from uh Dr. Mark uh and Debbie Laser uh and some of their earlier work, but um, it stands for feelings, affirmation, needs, own or ownership, and sobriety. Uh, and so it's an opportunity for you to to state a feeling that you're having, uh, which is again really important because you're starting to get in touch with how you actually feel, you're growing in that. So you're starting to name, hey, I'm I'm feeling really angry about this thing, or I'm really, you know, sad about you know, whatever. So now you're you're kind of doing some new things. The affirmations, you're giving your spouse an affirmation. Um, you know, thank you for you know doing the dishes last night, or thank you for doing this thing, or you know, for showing up in this way, you know, you responded really gently where normally, you know, you're a little more harsh. I just want to, you know, say thank you or something along those lines. Um, needs, you communicate a need, you know, and there's a couple of these areas where when you're checking in, like I was a lot of relationships don't actually do some of these things, you know, communicate like a need that you have, not necessarily from your partner, um, but just a need that you have, uh, and you're able to communicate that. Um, and then the owning uh or taking ownership, maybe, maybe you were harsh. Uh, your wife was asking you some questions about this journey or your recovery group, and you kind of you know it came out sideways. And in your check-in, you have the opportunity to go back and take ownership, you know, again for saying something like, um, hey, I I responded really harshly to that question that you asked. And, you know, I'm uh uh I apologize for doing that. I recognize that I did that and I want to take ownership for that. So I'm sorry. Um, again, a lot a lot of relationships don't practice the taking ownership or coming back. And that's part of the repair, actually, uh, rupture and repair in relationship. And so part of the repair is identifying those things and being able to speak them out. And then the last one, especially for the struggler, would be sobriety, maybe an update sort of on on how the journey's going. Again, not super detailed, um, just sort of um, you know, maybe uh, and again, this is something that you and your your your partner essentially would, you know, kind of maybe put some boundaries around. Like what exactly do you want to know for the sobriety part? Like the acting out, the, you know, if I if I told anybody, um, you know, whatever. But I don't also like to just leave it at sobriety. I think it's important to also include, you know, what are you what are you learning or or what's the Lord doing? Like so like a spiritual element or component to that for the struggler. And this is actually something that the partner will do too. They'll go through Phanos as well, but you get down to sobriety. Well, they're they're not struggling. So they don't have a an Well, assuming they're not struggling. Occasionally there can be that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, typically.
SPEAKER_02:Typically. Um, and some can yeah, sometimes, yes. But um, if if they don't have a struggle, um, you know, they can, you know, uh for the spouse, uh, I've heard, you know, safety, you know, like communicating like something around safety, safety and spirituality, or you know, something along those lines. So really, you know, sort of basic but structured check-in. Um, again, it can happen, you know. I I think in our conversation with LaCelle, we talked about in the beginning, it might, you might do this more and then kind of scale back. So you might do this two times a week, and then over time, you know, one time a week or you know, whatever. But it's something that you and your partner need to really talk about uh and put some boundaries around how often does she really the question I think is how often do you need this, or how you know is that going to be helpful um, you know, for for for you.
SPEAKER_01:And why is this important? Why is this important if if a guy isn't awakened and he's confessing every week, why is it still important in your mind for the for the couple to have this kind of check-in? Or uh we work with some, you know, some people on our team are Catholic and they have priests that they have this formal sacrament of confession. So if if I I know that my spouse is going to that, I know that they're going to a group and and checking in, why is this still important in your mind to do these types of check-ins?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I could talk all day about this because what I see, what happens for couples, is uh betrayal um impacts their attachment. It's it's a break if they're attached, it's an attachment wound, right? When the husband and wife have like come together and become one flesh, they've attached. When there's a betrayal, there's a break in that. So check-ins is is a repairing, is a is a way to come back together and begins to um re-establish their attachment, which is connection and a bond and listening and sharing. And it's it's begins to take what's broken and starts to put slowly put it back together. It's it's a it's a check-in, but it's healing their attachment wound. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's a process though, right? It's it's just take your time. If you just start with F, just start with sharing a feeling, a need, an affirmation, and just go slow, but do something together.
SPEAKER_01:And how often do you usually recommend? Like if if a wife is in one of your groups, she's like, I don't know, like, can I really handle this? Do I need this? I kind of want it daily. Do I need it daily? Do I is it weekly, monthly? Like, how do you do you have a typical thing you recommend? Again, Aaron said it's up to the couple ultimately, but what do you often recommend?
SPEAKER_00:Well, she needs to to have permission to settle in and say, what do I need and what I'm what do I feel safe with right now? So it it might be um once a week, it might be twice a week, it might be once a month, but um definitely the the honesty piece, right? The sobriety piece, because without sobriety, you you you don't know where your relationship stands. You feel unsafe and unsteady. So um, you know, depending on um what what you need and and giving yourself permission to just ask yourself, what am I comfortable with? What do I need? And then uh articulate that to the spouse.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And even if you're again in those spaces where you do have these check-ins, it's still going to be so helpful. And more often than not, maybe a baseline for some couples is at least once a week. But even if your spouse doesn't want to know everything, I mean, part of how we framed up this podcast is what if my spouse doesn't want to hear my confession? It might be that they don't actually want to hear details. Maybe you've been sharing too many details. Maybe they want to hear more broadly. Maybe in occasionally, and Ann, you can correct this if you think differently. Maybe they want to hear at the very least, you're sharing very honestly with your group. You're sharing very honestly with your coach or counselor, you're sharing very honestly with your priests. Like they want to know at the very least that there's raw places where the the betrayer could go and just be known, even if they're not ready to hear everything. How do you usually think about that, Ann?
SPEAKER_00:Well, if they're being honest, right? If they are being honest with somebody and they are um, I call it just brut, um, you know, brutal transparency. They're walking in the light. They care about this, they care about their own, their own um, you know, purity, purity of heart and purity of mind. And a wife can tell, like a broken man, a person walking in recovery is not hard to see. So she'll feel it, she'll see it, she'll know it.
SPEAKER_01:I love that brutal transparency, as opposed to brutal honesty, which is usually when you say something to someone that might be truthful in your mind, but it's not loving. But brutal transparency is making yourself known completely, utterly, as much as your spouse wants to. And uh, maybe it's loving honesty and brutal transparency go together, but it's beautiful. Guys, we got to begin to wrap up. Um, we're at our time here, but I do want to share that step five is so important. It's setting your marriage up for long-term healing. For some couples, it's gonna be really important that you do a full therapeutic disclosure. Aaron and Ann on our team do these, they're trained in them, they've done uh several, a bunch over the years, where everything gets on the table, it's formatted in a careful way. This is especially helpful for those who might have had years of hidden behavior and the betrayal is so disorienting. Um, full therapy disclosure, and then restored to more is our marriage healing group. And one of the things Ann and I have been learning over the years as we lead that is that as important as individual work is, people like I believe Dr. Jake Porter and says that we're right, we're realizing that couples need to actually come together sooner than we used to think. As in, it doesn't make a ton of sense for most couples to do a year of individual work each. Instead, maybe it's a a month or two, and then they're coming together so that they're not completely on these separate healing journeys that might be kind of going in different directions. But getting some healing under each of your belts, some stability, and but then restored to more is such a great place for uh however many months into recovery for a couple to come together and really say, How do we do this together? And by the way, there's a lot of great betrayal education in Restored Demore. There's addiction education so that in this case, Restored Demore is for betraying husbands and betrayed wives, so that the wife can learn about the addiction, the husband can learn about betrayal. So some of our step three is actually included in something like restored to more and in a lot of depth. And so um, we don't have a ton of time to talk about those things, but anything either of you want to say about full therapeutic disclosures or um restored to more, which we will link, by the way, both of those. Uh I think you guys did a podcast on the disclosures. We'll link to that, and we'll link to the application for restored to more in the show notes.
SPEAKER_00:Well, both are essential. Um, but you know, it the full dear the full therapeutic disclosure is a reset of the foundation of the relationship. It when honesty is shared, the relationship has a chance to to rebuild, right? Rebuilding your house from the foundation up, rebuilding from the truth will then create safety and trust and vulnerability and intimacy.
SPEAKER_01:And we have a link to that pyramid in the stock as well from uh that's from Dan Drake and and the Rab Smiths, I believe, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um, but the restore to more shifts helps the couple shift from crisis to repairing a secure attachment. And it takes the two and it brings them together to become one. And it's coupled centered recovery then.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful. And we limit that to only four to five couples. So if you're interested, let us know. We're typically going to be running that in April. And so if you're interested, go ahead and apply when you hear this because it's gonna be uh really transformative. We've run it twice, Ann and I, and it's been incredible. Aaron, anything briefly you want to add about disclosures or yeah, in this case, disclosure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I would just say, you know, for any, especially for anyone's, you know, hearing this and you know, realizing maybe you're at a place where this is gonna be really beneficial, but you're maybe scared to to jump in, or what it might mean, or what it might look like if you know you're you maybe your spouse is aware of some of the things, but not all of the things. Um and I would say um, based on uh just really our example, like our um the work that Ann and I have done, and the work that we've seen in so many couples, is that this really gives your relationship the best sort of fighting chance um of really experiencing a marriage like you always hoped and wanted and uh and thought maybe you had, um that that it's still possible. And and we have seen um several couples um, you know, go through a full disclosure, some really hard stuff, um, you know, go through the entire process and can can look back and say, we are at a better place than we have ever been. Um, and that's not a place most people think they're gonna maybe going to get to um when they start that process. And so again, it there is no guarantee, like you said earlier, James. Um, you know, this isn't like a sureproof like way necessarily of you know avoiding divorce or those types of things. I mean, those things still, you know, can happen, you know, based on you know, a lot of different things, but um, but I would say that a a full therapeutic disclosure is so beneficial because it supports both the betrayer and the betrayed in such a beautiful way through the entire process. It's not something they're walking through alone, um, but that they're walking through with guides along the way, um, doing a lot of preparation where. And a lot of question, and you know, Ann and I are doing a lot of hand holding to kind of walk them through this process of hopefully what will be just a beautiful uh example of the Lord's restoration uh and repair in their in their marriage.
SPEAKER_01:Wonderful. Well, Aaron, would you be willing to close us with a prayer akin to what you were just sharing about praying that over us and our listeners? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, Abba Father, we um yeah, we thank you for uh even just this PDF and these steps, Lord. And um, Lord, we just ask that you would um you know give uh the listeners and uh anyone Lord who this you know maybe specifically touch today the uh as they listen, Lord, the courage to take the steps, Lord, to um you know, to do these things, Lord, especially to disclose and and to possibly walk through, Lord, that disclosure process, Lord, to experience the the true depth of intimacy, Lord, that you um that you meant for marriage, Lord, when two become one, unfractured, Lord, uh, completely whole, um, and thriving, Lord. We don't we don't want to see marriages just survive, Lord. We want to see them thrive. And so we pray for thriving um for marriages, Lord, and for restoration and repair, Lord, and your work, Lord, to be done. Thank you, Lord. We pray these things in Christ's name. Amen.
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