Isolation

Shame, Isolation, and Why Community Is the Opposite of Addiction 

Join us in today’s episode as I (James Craig) sit down with Regen coach Aaron Tagert to talk about what keeps people stuck in addictive cycles—especially around porn and unwanted sexual behaviors. Aaron shares three major drivers he’ll cover in an upcoming men’s webinar: shame, isolation, and the uncomfortable truth that there can be something about porn that part of us “likes.” 

We focus mainly on isolation, pulling from Marcus Warner’s "Slaying the Monster" and the idea that the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—it’s community. 

We unpack how isolation turns suffering into trauma, how many wounds happen in relationships, yet healing also comes through relationships, and why belonging matters more than accountability. 

We also get practical with four simple ways to start building community—smile, validate, help, and share—, and we invite men to Regeneration's live webinar on March 5th. If this helps you, share it with someone who feels alone in the struggle.

Resources from this episode:

• BATTLE podcast 
• Slaying the Monster book
• TED talk on addiction

🗓️ Upcoming:

You’re invited to Regeneration’s Annual Dessert Fundraiser on Thursday, March 19, at 6:00 PM at Martins Valley Mansion. Join us for an encouraging evening of real stories and renewed hope as we celebrate how Christ is bringing healing and restoration in our city. Dessert is provided, and seating is limited. Learn more, register, or host a table RSVP

Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:

👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:18

Addictions develop because people lack relational connectedness, relational capacity, and relational skills. Addictions develop because people lack relational connectedness, relational capacity, and relational skills. That's a quote straight out of Slaying the Monster by Marcus Warner, which I had the pleasure of interviewing him about a few months ago. It's a podcast called Battle. But man, Aaron and I, Aaron Taggart and I are going to get into this topic of relationships today. In fact, Aaron's going to be leading a webinar coming up called The Three Biggest Reasons You Keep Going Back to Porn and What You Can Do About Them. This is a webinar we're making for men, but today's podcast is for everyone. So, Aaron, um, as we're diving in, um, I forgot to introduce myself. I'm James Craig, the director of projects, and Aaron is a coach. We're both coaches here at Regen. We love getting to work with men um toward relational wholeness in Christ. So, Aaron, um, as as you prepare for this webinar, as you think about what keeps people stuck. I know the webinar is for men, but what keeps people in general stuck? What are the three reasons that you're going to address, the three things that keep us stuck in our addiction?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

Oh man. Yeah. Uh let me just first say, dude, uh just from the the time we spent before hitting record here, I am I'm super excited to dive into just one of these things that we're going to be talking about at the uh at the webinar. Um and so um, yeah, James, I think the you know three things that keep us stuck um in this sort of an addictive cycle or just kind of coming back to uh you know pornography or unwanted sexual behaviors. I think shame is one of the things that's sort of at the top of that list. Um Jay Stringer talks so much about shame being a driver, and you think that like when we do something that we become shameful of, that it would sort of have this opposite effect and this power, be like, oh man, like I feel so bad, like I don't want to do that anymore. And and then I'm not, but then what happens is we feel all those negative feels around the shame, and then we end up wanting to not feel that. And through the different patterns in addiction and and even sort of that that white matter uh that grows around habits in our brains, um, which I'm not gonna unpack today, but um it accelerates that accelerates sort of the the going to something that is so familiar, that white matter. Um, but it we fall right back into that pattern uh and we act out again. And so it's you know, shame is really truly a driver. Um, and so we'll talk about you know that and how to sort of disrupt shame on on that webinar and kind of swim at it. Love it, if you will. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um uh the other one, uh, and we're gonna talk a little bit more about this one today, is isolation. Um isolation uh is in my opinion, probably one of, if not the greatest schemes of the enemy to keep us in places of feeling hopeless and stuck. And we'll unpack that a little bit today, and then and then more in the webinar as well. And the third one is probably one that most people I wish I could actually see the faces of people when I say this one. Um, you know, because it's not one that you would normally maybe associate. And that third reason is, in all honesty, for different reasons, there is a part of there's a part of it. There's a part of pornography, there's something in it that we like. And saying those words out loud is like, oh no, I'm not coming in, I'm not coming into agreement with like, oh yeah, because there's a part in this that we like, we should watch it or we should go to the but but to be curious about what is it about pornography that we do like? Why is it so powerful to draw us in? And there there honestly is sort of an element there that that we part of us likes it, and that's such a it's such a uh you know, the dichotomy, like we love Jesus, and part of me also loves this thing that I don't like, you know, or since I did love, um, you know, but why? What is that? And we're gonna talk about that on the webinar.

SPEAKER_01: 5:33

That's one of those places, Aaron, where I think non-believers actually have an easier time of just saying, Yeah, I look at porn because I love it. Like, clearly, you know, but as believers, we have all these um these defenses up, like, man, I can't really admit something that honest that there's parts of me that love this. So, guys, I'm so excited for you to for the men who are listening to join us as we unpack all of those in more detail. But today, as Aaron said, we're gonna hone in on isolation. And I gotta go back to that quote again, Aaron. Um, this idea from Marcus Warner that really addiction stems from a lack of relational connectedness, number one, a lack of relational capacity, and a lack of relational skills. And I just want to think about that first one for a second, a lack of relational connectedness. I watched this incredible TED Talk, Aaron. Um, I guess we will link that in the show notes. But in the TED Talk, the guy is an addiction expert, I believe. He says the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety. The opposite of addiction is community. Man, that is a paradigm shift. Uh, most of us are here, maybe listening or listening on behalf of loved ones. Like, man, I just hope they can get sober and stay sober, you know, like let's hit that hundred-day mark, let's hit that one-year mark, you know. But but the opposite of addiction is not that kind of stuff. It's not sobriety, it's not um just you know, counting the days or avoiding the behavior, it's actually inviting us to something much deeper, it's inviting us out of isolation and into community. What do you think of that, Aaron? What comes to mind as I uh share that quote with you?

SPEAKER_00: 7:10

Well, uh I think of earlier in that that that chapter uh from uh Slaying the Monster, uh, where he writes, isolation kills. Yeah. And it turns our suffering into trauma. And in large part because we don't have anybody to invite into that with us. And so not only have I experienced, you know, you know, some of these different wounds and things that I need to unpack, get in touch with, you know, maybe some of these feelings and and discoveries, but even even on top of that, man, I'm alone. You know, uh who do I turn to? Where can I go? Who will listen? Who would want to listen? You know, the shame creeps in, and you know, nobody wants to hear my story. Nobody wants to, you know, oh well, they're probably busy. You know, how many times have we heard that in coaching or in a group, right? Like, well, I didn't reach out because I didn't want to bother somebody. I I didn't want to, I didn't want to put my stuff onto their plate, you know. I didn't and it's like, you know what? That's exactly what the enemy wants to do. He wants you to feel like you're a burden for seeking help and sharing what you're experiencing by opening up to other people. Um, so yeah, I mean, isolation, uh, it might feel like protection until it becomes the thing that kills us.

SPEAKER_01: 8:47

Aaron, I've I've described, I've probably got this from someone, I just don't always remember. Um, I've described shame as a relational repellent. It's like this uh pesticide that you know, the enemy uh um uh specifically um spiritual forces of evil, they they collaborate with the wounds in our life to kind of like get us to spray ourselves with this like pesticide and say, stay away from me. Um, I'll hurt you or you'll hurt me, something like that. We we end up with these divides. We end up in these places of isolation. And so um one of the things that comes to mind, Aaron, as you're talking, is that it's hard to get out of isolation because there are reasons in some ways, good reasons. I'm kind of do using air quotes. Um, because when we're a child and we're wounded, we don't always recognize that there's a wound, or we don't recognize that what we're agreeing to, this isolation mindset, this kind of repelling relationships mindset is actually going to hurt us more in the long run because we're trying to survive in that very moment. And we actually have to have some compassion, I'd say, for our younger selves that might have said things like, I will never let someone hurt me again, or I can't let someone close to me because they might hurt me, because there were actually reasons we went there. Now, part of what it means to become an adult is to unpack some of that, Aaron. And I imagine you're doing this all the time, like I am in coaching, or we're trying to unpack what's what's keeping us in isolation. So I don't know, I guess the question coming to mind, you could take this a different route, but what are some of the main things that you would say? Like, are there main types of wounds, or are there main like stories you've come across time and time again that that make it so hard for man or for a woman to get out of isolation once they've kind of entered deeper into that place?

SPEAKER_00: 10:38

Yeah, man. Uh I think it's the stories where there's sort of a catch-22 in in community and sort of leaving isolation. That is that so much of our wounding happens at the hands of other people in community. And yet, yet, the greatest healing that we can experience also comes through others and community. Um and Jesus too, but the the emphasis on you know the the opposite of addiction is community. It's it's putting everything you have to come against the nature of isolation, maybe even a spirit of isolation. I was thinking the same thing. I feel like there is a warfare element to this, isn't there, Aaron? Yeah, I really think there is, man, because the more the more you can be convinced that you're the problem or you're too much, or right, and then it gets into identity stuff too, really easily, then it's just super easy to sit by yourself in the dark. Um, you know, and here's the thing, man, like isolation, it doesn't just make us lonely, but it also it also sort of calcifies our hearts, man. It makes us less tender, it makes us less open, it makes us less vulnerable and willing. Uh, and it really is sort of this thing that it doesn't just hide pain, man, it it calcifies the pain.

SPEAKER_01: 13:03

You know, part of why Marcus talks in Slaying the Monster about um trauma occurring when we're isolated, he's actually getting that from Dr. Jim Wilder in the life model, where uh Wilder talks about how when we experience a wound, it's called a rupture, right? We experience a break in relationship or a painful situation. But then when we have an adult in our life, let's just say we're a child, we have an adult, a parent in our life who comes and brings repair, who narrates the situation. Man, it was so hard that that mommy was in the hospital and and helps even maybe put words to feelings that a five-year-old or something can't actually name effectively. That can actually, that repair can basically stop the development and actually heal the trauma that was beginning to form through that incident. In other words, through that kind of relational connection with someone who's a stronger mind, like a parent if we're a child or or God. I mean, this is such an invitation to the loving, tender heart of God, as I see right behind you, Aaron. You still got the, I see your painting and stuff, but you got the prodigal son painting still right behind you. That embrace of the father can actually bring so much healing, even in the moment of a wound, even within moments after a wound just occurred, that it doesn't turn into trauma versus trauma being something that overwhelms our nervous system. But we don't have someone to repair that rupture. We don't have someone to bring us calm, peace, a narration, or, you know, when I say narration, like helping us understand what's really going on or kind of explaining it in a in an accurate, healing way. So I don't know, I'm just kind of riffing on what you're sharing, but I think on the brain level, it can be helpful to recognize like this isn't just in fact, the word trauma is used so much, but I actually really appreciate Wilder's definition that when our nervous system's overwhelmed, we don't have the emotional maturity or capacity to handle something, we actually need a relationship to bring healing. Can happen in the moment, can happen 20, 40, 60 years later when we encounter Jesus through a loving brother or sister or in in various types of situations like that.

SPEAKER_00: 15:17

Yeah, I mean, I even think just it's hard not to think about even just Jesus coming um and and living, um, you know, it's fully God and fully man. And and how so, like how does God come and meet us in the midst of this? It's through a face, it's through a voice, you know, it is it is through a person. Um and and sometimes he sends us people before we're even ready, and we don't see it maybe, or we don't realize or recognize, but um, but it's it's there, and it that's I think why it's just so it's almost like in sort of a way, like a like his design. We talk about like a design for sexuality, you know, here at regen. Like his design is also like this this connection, and you know, I yeah, we are made, we are made in the image of God, right? Let that sink in for a second. And and gosh, we could do a whole series of podcasts on just that alone, right? But if we are made in his image, he exists in an eternal community of three. God himself is not alone. So why in the world would we ever think that we can thrive alone or heal alone, right? Or be our best alone. We can't. It's against the nature of God and what he's put inside of us.

SPEAKER_01: 17:02

Aaron, you probably run up against this where in yourself, maybe even, but also in in men we're walking with, there's that mindset, but shouldn't Jesus just be enough, right? Like, shouldn't um, if I were to seek him hard and and kind of give it give him my all, wouldn't that be enough? And I've got one initial thought, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. One is right after he says we're made in the image, right after Genesis one says that we're made in the image of God, it goes on to say a few verses later, it's not good that Adam or man, in this case, just the broad term for mankind basically, is alone. So even in that moment, we find out that just like we we know we need food, we know we need water, we don't say, hey, if I just had enough faith, uh, I'd be nourished by water right now. That's just not how God designed it to work. I'm sure he has miraculously provided water in various ways. We know it in scripture water from a rock, uh, from Moses. Um, but normatively, he has made us to need water and food and oxygen and sleep. And according to Genesis 2, right there at the beginning, he's made us, even when we're walking in perfect communion with God, or you know, Adam is walking in the garden with God, he was made to need community. That's kind of a shock.

SPEAKER_00: 18:21

Yeah, it's it might be weird to think about this, but on a creational level, like we are made for community. We are made to experience others, and for them to experience us, that's the thing too. You know, we talk about when we have these groups that we run, you know, Waken 360 and the unwanted intensive, and even our awakened retreats and things, right? Like guys come, and part of the reason guys don't come is because you know they just well, what do I have to offer? Or what you know, yeah, again, some of the shame and that's the isolation just at its peak, right? But here's the beautiful part too is that in the midst of that, you have something to offer and to receive from others, and you can't do that by yourself. You need others, right, to offer and to receive. And again, you know, if that's the you know the you know, the Lord does that. Jesus didn't walk alone. Um, you know, my um, this is I don't know why this is coming up right now, but um, my favorite uh soccer team is Liverpool. Uh and their motto is you'll never walk alone. Huh. And maybe that's why I love them so much. They've had some recent success, it's been a down year this year, but um, but that whole like man, even when you feel alone, and that's where I think this is so powerful, like in in how the Lord shows up in this. Even when you feel alone, you're not, you'll never walk alone. It's not in God's nature. He didn't design us and put us here to be alone, to perpetually feel alone. Um and you know, I just yeah, let those words sink in. You listener will never walk alone.

SPEAKER_01: 20:23

Aaron, I think that's one of those prayers that God loves to answer. You know, we're pulling a lot from uh Slaying the Monster because we're actually going through it as an awakened leadership team, and and Aaron is uh serving one of our awakened groups in this season. Um, and so us and and the rest of our team are going through this, but I think God loves to answer that prayer, Aaron. Like I need to know that I'm not alone with you, Jesus. Like that you are with me somehow, even though not bodily, but in a in a real and uh spiritual but real sense. But also, God, I need men or women around me. I need people around me. And in slaying the monster, he actually uh Marcus, Dr. Marcus Warner encourages find uh find a group of nine allies. That's an audacious prayer. God, give me nine people that I feel safe to talk honestly with. Um, but I actually think, Aaron, he loves to answer these prayers because it's one of those things where it's like, God, I need my daily bread. So if we're made to not just need bread and water and air and sleep, but to need community, this is the kind of thing that God really loves to answer. I think here, Aaron, of Psalm 23, um, the Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing. And I I love Dallas Willard's commentary on this because he actually believes this is one of the most astounding things you'll ever hear anyone say. He believes that this earth within God's kingdom is a perfectly safe place to be. In other words, those who are trusting in God will never lack what they need. Now, that's hard to square with things like, you know, I've got behind me a picture of St. Polycarp, who was killed for his faith. And there's so many who it's like, wait, they didn't seem to get exactly what they need. But but I really believe that on a physical level, God loves to provide for his people what they need. And obviously, beyond that, when when the body, um when we're no longer in this body, as Paul would say, on this side of heaven, um, all of our needs are met in the most perfect of ways in that communion of the saints. But I actually really believe that God loves to answer here and now that trustful prayer, God, would you provide me with people? And the reason Marcus encourages nine, by the way, is simply just not everyone's around all the time. You can't call up, uh, you can't just have a single ally, and then when they're not available, you're just completely stuck. And so he's just saying, look, Jesus had a Peter. James John, he had that kind of inner circle. It might be the people you're most comfortable with. But but one strong encouragement invitation to prayer is Lord, would you provide me that inner circle, but also others, maybe others that don't even know exactly the nature of my struggles, but others who receive me with love and joy nonetheless, others who are glad to be with me on a rough day, nonetheless.

SPEAKER_00: 23:12

Yeah.

unknown: 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:14

I mean, even people maybe who don't have the same struggle, right? I think a lot of the times too, we can feel like, oh bet, yeah, they're their stuff's different than mine. Like they won't get it. You know, they don't understand. And again, another sort of lie from the pit of hell, man, that keeps us in this place of isolation. Um and I like I think like there is something to say too about having having courage to sort of seek it, seek out, you know, others, and to think that is such a vulnerable, especially courageous thing. Yeah, so especially in your story, if um if you've been wounded by others, and uh be honest, like I mean, really, that's in some way, shape, or form, most of our wounds have come, you know, either physically, emotionally, or sexually at the hands or actions of others. Um, and and even in groups, sometimes that can just be absolutely just mortifying, right? Like the the thinking about, man, how can I even open up about this to some people? Because I've seen the way, you know, the the the the churches you know handle things or or my experience of this or what I know about this person, or um, you know, and I don't want that to be my story. I don't want that to be the outcome. I don't want to be treated like that or to feel that because now that's gonna reinforce sort of what I'm already feeling, right? So it just keeps us paralyzed and stuck. But that courage, the buffalo, right? On the buffalo, I got mine right here is that is that's it, man. It's you know, it's it's leaning, it's leaning in. And the store that you, you know, it's like even that might feel like a storm for you to start to seek out community and others and to begin to be vulnerable and begin to um, you know, uh, you know, on try to understand your emotions and your capacity and what you're feeling and be able to sit with those things and and the pain. And you know, we're going through that right now and awaken 360. And it is it's just remarkable because it's such an important and necessary part of the healing journey. Um, but man, that leaning into sort of that storm of what might feel like trying to build up that group of nine. Uh, you know, and and he even says, you know, start with three, you know, you know, Jesus had his disciples, and so one, he needed others, right? He's also trying to build, you know, his kingdom here on earth. So it's kind of this twofold thing. Oh, yeah. But like if we think about that, even like could he have built, I mean, okay, yes, he probably could have, but he chose, right, to build his kingdom through people. He didn't do it any other way. He didn't do it, he could have totally done it by himself. Like, no, I'm here to bring heaven, like, you know, I got he could have just dropped the new Jerusalem right down from the sky and said, Hey, the king is here. You better bow down. And he's like, Nope, that's not how that's not how this is happening.

SPEAKER_01: 26:18

Like, this is happening with people, with these 12 messy, broken, oh my god, sinful men and and the women who are uh also with us. Aaron, I I'm humbled as we're talking because this is this is bit like this isn't simple. This isn't like, hey, are you isolated? Yeah, go call like there's so much complexity to why we don't reach out. There's so much pain, the shame. Again, we're gonna talk more about that at the webinar. But I want to get really practical as we move toward landing the plane. We've already mentioned prayer, right? Start with prayer. God, I need people. Um, one other thing that Aaron also alluded to is uh groups. We we offer groups throughout the year, Awaken 360 for men and unwanted. And we have uh oasis and compass for women and wives. We have we actually are trying to get to a point, friends, where most seasons of the year, we at least have some form of group going. Why is that? Why don't we just encourage coaching? Coaching can be super helpful. We obviously believe in it. That one-on-one, deep support, we're exploring the story of your life. But even from a lens of coaching, we're often encouraging more than ever. Hey, all the science shows, all the all the stuff we've already been referencing shows, you need other people. You need peers, in other words. You can't just have a mentor. You need mentors. Don't not hear that, right? We we need mentors and sponsors and coaches and counselors sometimes. But we always need peers. We always need people who are on the same journey as us. So don't hesitate, friends, to consider, regardless if you're a man dealing with sexual sin, a woman dealing with sexual sin, or a wife dealing with betrayal trauma, we're we have groups for you. And there are other great ministries that also have groups because that's actually one of the places we are transformed the most. And so one of the keys of why we do groups and don't just say, hey, here's content, go run with it, is because not all of us actually have all the skills we need to build community. So this is actually a way to kind of plug in to a safe environment where community is being practiced.

SPEAKER_00: 28:27

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And you said it too, man. It's a it's a place to uh to take those vulnerable steps in a in a really safe environment. I promise you, uh, you know, when we run these groups, like these uh these are safe environments. It doesn't mean you might not feel, you know, some of the different feels inside of the vulnerability or the taking risks, and oh, I don't like, I don't know, or um, but we work so hard to create that because it is so vital, it is so important. Um, and it really helps you open up um to not just share, but to be present with others. And I think there's something so important about that, the the presence that other people bring. Um, right, even talking about that earlier, you know, you're not walking, you will never walk alone because the presence of the one who knows you and and and knit you um and in your mother's womb he knows you, he's with you. That his presence is with you, even when you don't feel it. Um and so that's yeah, uh I don't know. I feel like I could just keep going on and on about that, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:48

Well well, let me just share, let me share four other ideas that um Marcus shares in uh chapter two of Slaying the Monster. These are so practical. That's part of why I love uh Marcus Warner because he he makes things incredibly practical. He's like, all right, look, you want to begin building community. Here's four things you can do. Smile. Number one, smile. He's like, people are looking for joy, and smiling is a quick way of letting them know that you see them. And so he even goes on to say it's not hypocritical to smile when you're not happy, it's instead choosing to do a positive action when you're feeling negative. So smiling, and I'll go through these four, and then I'd love to hear any thoughts you have, Aaron. Um, number two is validating. Uh, we learn to listen to others and validate the emotions we hear. Uh, we let them know they're understood and how how big an emotion is. So, Aaron, I hear that you're feeling fear, and sounds like you're feeling a lot of fear given what's happening. That kind of moment builds deeper relationship every single time. Uh, not trying to fix our the problem, at least not in any sort of immediate or direct way, but starting with that validation. Uh, number three, helping. This is this is great. This actually was like a revelation for me. He says the secret to making friends is not all that complicated. Make their problems smaller. Um, and they're gonna be happy to see you. If you're the sort of person coming and say, uh-oh, my problems are about to get bigger, you probably are gonna have a hard time making friends. This is key, though. This does not mean that you have to pretend to be someone you're not. It means, though, that you don't always have to lead with your problems and that you can learn to look for ways to help others and make their problems smaller. So it's kind of interesting because Aaron, you and I are in the spaces where we're pretty much all the time going into the depths of people's stories and trying to invite the good shepherd into those places and see deep healing. But actually, that can't be 24-7. We need to have times where we're just lighthearted. Um, we need to recognize that sometimes jumping into, let's just say, a Bible study at church and and sharing our biggest traumas the first night, not sometimes, that's pretty much never the wise thing to do unless God's telling you to for some reason. But um, but it's actually recognizing look, we have our limits. Not everyone's ready to hear everything. And I can actually be someone who serves others. I can actually be someone who at times gets out of my own focus and focuses on others. Final thing, number four is sharing. Again, this kind of uh piggybacks what I was just saying. Not everyone can handle all your emotions and all your struggles all the time, right? So we need spaces like coaching where it's a it's an open canvas to share whatever needs to be shared. We need places like groups where maybe we can't share the 10 out of 10 deepest pain all the time, but we can share real painful things. But we also need those spaces where we can actually focus on joy and share good good things that are going on as well. So smiling, validating, helping, and sharing our uh uh friend, uh breaking isolation 101 tips from Marcus Warner. Aaron, any thoughts on those? I feel like they were actually pretty helpful as I think about my own at times still isolation tendencies when I feel shame or other things.

SPEAKER_00: 33:01

Man, uh yeah, uh the smile. Um I I I you get this image almost of just like the warmth of a smile. We've heard that before, right? The warmth of a smile, and I just see it like melt, like we're in a you know, uh we're you know, I I know you're in California, but over here uh on the other side of the US, it's freezing, man. And we've got like this because they're still within the Ice Mageddon situation, right? Like you can't even you like you, like I'm a big dude, and I go outside and I'm standing on top of the ice on the snow, and I just see like a smile, a warm smile, just melts the ice. It really does.

SPEAKER_01: 33:44

Yeah, I'm so grateful. I actually thank God when I'm on a walk and I'm like, oh, that person just smiled at me. Like it actually literally brightens our day if you if you're paying attention.

SPEAKER_00: 33:52

Oh my gosh, 100%. So it just has that smile carries the ability to just melt some things away. Um, right. And then uh the you know, validating, I think that's really you know, it it it uh emphasizes uh or uh maybe sort of reinforces in some ways that desire that we have to feel seen. And so when someone's like, Oh yeah, this is what I'm hearing, and you're like, Yes, like, oh my gosh, like yeah, totally see me, you totally hear me right now. And that's what we need um in that in that journey, man.

SPEAKER_01: 34:26

Darren, real quick, the other day I was having trouble getting out of bed. Uh, it still happens sometimes, and I uh shared everything with my wife before she headed off to work, and she's like, Man, if I was feeling everything you're feeling, I would have trouble getting out of bed too. Immediately, my day completely turned to 180, literally. Within that one moment of that one validating phrase, I it turned to 180. I no longer believed I was alone, which by the way, this gives you guys a peek that even though Aaron and I have had robust success with breaking through the addiction by God's grace through these processes we're talking about, there's still ways that I recognize I'm still very emotionally immature. Enough buildup of a certain type of situation, and I'm having trouble getting out of bed or or validating myself or you know, receiving God's. This is where in that little vignette, like my wife came in and brought something that I couldn't bring myself. And that was a gift from God, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00: 35:19

Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, that yeah, that is great validation and and and we need that. It's such a critical part um of the healing um sort of journey. Um, I love that helping, you know, to you know make their problems smaller. And I think you know, yeah, you could probably think of some people like that in your life, like I certainly can, man. And it's just like, man, I could bring this thing to him and he's gonna have a perspective and he's gonna just be so helpful. It's you know, what I feel like is the heaviest or biggest thing in the world, like the just have these individuals have a way of being like, oh man, like I totally hear that. Like, I understand how that would feel, but you know, just making it feel not as heavy, and almost in a way it's kind of like you know, in in scripture, when it's like you know, carry one another's burdens, you know, or to be yoked you know, with some with somebody else, right? Load feels so much lighter, and you can you can like you can carry it. Um, and then that last part, man, sharing, it's that emotional maturity. And James, honestly, uh, you know, I the longer I do this work, you know, with with the problem of isolation, you know, I think one of the biggest areas that needs that so many people are so stuck in isolation because of is that emotional maturity. Um and just feeling stuck and not um again, you know, some of the different shame and some of the things that we might say in those moments, but um not knowing what we feel or how we feel or like wanting to feel, right? We don't have the capacity to sit in that or to to you know let alone share that with somebody else. So I think the emotional, you know, that emotional maturity um is is is really important. And I love right after that what um what Marcus Warner says um in the very next section. He says the key to transformation is not accountability, but belonging. And I think somebody needs to hear that, and probably more than one person. You know, I think we can get and and and that's another podcast. Actually, I'm thinking about that. Might be actually a really good podcast talking about sort of accountability, you know, but beyond belonging. Yeah, beyond counting. Um but um we need more than just accountability. Um that belonging, that sense of belonging. Um, because really good accountability also includes mutuality. It's not just, hey, I'm coming to bring my stuff, you're listening to it, and man, okay, I got that off my chest. Uh, there is a uh a sort of again, we talked about that earlier, like the give and take, like the your presence at you know, a group or an event, or like you both receive and give your presence. You receive other people's presence, you give your presence. Um, and so it's sort of this two-way street in the sense of like accountability is important, but like mutual accountability, not like most, you know. I think there's some accountability for a lot of people has a really negative connotation.

SPEAKER_01: 38:37

Um it fails a lot of the time because it wants to actually show up.

SPEAKER_00: 38:41

Yeah, well, it's not being done right. Yeah, you know, it's focuses. Man, I remember that in college, man. Like I had an accountability in college, and it was like, uh, yeah, messed up this week. Um, you know, oh me too, me too, me too. Okay, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01: 38:56

Uh give it one or two months, and everyone's given excuses. Hey, man, I got homework to do, I can't make it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:03

It was like, oh man, I'm a I'm terrible. I can't, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, man, if you only focus on that, and you're missing, you're missing so much of the rest of what that can be.

SPEAKER_01: 39:16

Um we love a we we believe in confession. In fact, at Awaken, every week you have the opportunity to confess, and in that sense, these are accountability groups, but that's not ultimately what typically is going to change someone. What's going to change them is that belonging. Who are who are we? What kind of men are we becoming? And Aaron, I've heard that a handful of times. Guys, at a certain point in Awaken or in coaching, they're like, I'm not the kind of man who looks at porn. And that's not a hubris statement. That's actually a statement of I'm a child of God, and people like me, people who are fellow uh heirs and and children of the father, don't use people this way. That kind of identity shift, Aaron, like almost more than anything else. And that's not just like a hey, believe this about yourself left brain. As important as it is to understand some good knowledge about identity, that's an experiential statement, Aaron, where it's like, I've actually gone through this process enough to realize we are not the type of people who go back to this behavior. We're actually the type of people who are loved by God, who are seeking to walk with him and by his grace are becoming like Jesus. That that flips everything on its head. Not to mention, by the way, as Stringer says in Unwanted, that even accountability can be more about who are we becoming, not just what are we trying to leave behind. And so, hey man, I notice you're struggling to, you know, keep up with that book that you wanted to read. I just think you're the type of guy who you're gonna benefit so much. And, you know, there's there's positive ways actually to be kind of speaking that life into each other as opposed to just, oh, I didn't do the thing I said I would do again. There's actually when we're developing this identity in community, um, the belonging, the the sense of who we are are as a community, we end up moving more effectively toward the transformation that we're looking for.

SPEAKER_02: 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:06

Dude, community offers, I feel like me, like a prophetic encouragement, right? Like, you know, just this encouragement. Like, who who wouldn't want to be around people who are like, man, you know, hey, you're not alone. You got this. You're you're more you are not defined by your successes or failures in this. Like you are defined by by who you are. I'm so glad you're here, you know. Gosh, I say that to to guys in group. Like, I know sometimes they don't want to show up to you know, awaken because man, it's been a really hard week and I've failed, you know, I've messed up. And I'm and but you know, here I am. And I'm like, you came.

SPEAKER_01: 41:43

Like, that's yeah, oh good. And what does that say? That's saying you're the type of man with the courage to show up to this community to be blessed and to bless, like you keep bringing up, Aaron. You're you're you're you're such an important part of this. That's like the belonging, that's the identity you're invoking when you say, I'm so glad you're here. You made it, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 42:01

Yeah, with that smile, uh, you know, that one that one talked about, right? It's like, man, I'm just celebrating, you know, that you are here, that you are among us, that you are at this table with us. Um, because again, I thought that reinforces too, talked about earlier that you're not, you're not alone and that you will never walk alone, even when you feel like man, I can't come to group tonight because I messed up and I've got all this shame. Man, show up to that group. That's lean in, be that buffalo. Well, you know, you and I talked uh uh about even just the that sort of herd, uh and not in a negative context, but the herd mentality of a buffalo and being with others. There is a protection and strength of being a part of the herd that you don't get when you're sort of that lone wolf or like the lone, you know, whatever you want to fill in the blank there with isolation. When you are part of the pack, um, and again, that's why you know developing that pack, you're three to nine, you know, people, um, there's a protection uh in a way because you're not you're not alone. Absolutely. You're with you're with the pack. So they offer there's a there's a there's a protection in that, I think, that people don't often think about, but um, it's just a beautiful sort of in a way, benefit of being connected and and and pressing into community.

SPEAKER_01: 43:24

Well, Aaron, I'm really excited for you to share more um with men on March 5th, uh, right at noon Eastern time. So, men, if you're listening, join us on your lunch break or just in the middle of your day on Thursday, March 5th. Um, we will be live. So we'll be asking for your questions, um, opportunity for that kind of interaction and and growing together. Join the buffalo pack. I mean that's right. Has that ever been said before, Aaron? Uh yeah, I don't know. Yeah, join the herd. Here we go. Join the herd. Um no, but uh let me uh let me close this in a word of prayer, um, recognizing again that um the enemy is just so against all this, all the goodness that is meant to come through Christ's body. So, Father God, in light of that, I just pray that those listening, um, you'd give them the power by your spirit to to take that next step toward out of isolation and toward belonging and community. God, we we barely scratch the surface of the things that keep us stuck sometimes, even to this day, or um the various people who might be listening, uh, the the complexity of the stories that that make breaking isolation so hard. But God, I just pray for your grace in that and that people who are listening, our listeners, we get the opportunities to um to experience what is meant to be a life giving opportunity of being part of community. So I just pray that you take them that next faithful step, that you bless them. In their journey as they're growing in you. Pray all this in Jesus' name. Amen.