The Power of Vulnerability

The lie that keeps so many of us stuck isn’t “you’re too weak” it’s “you’re on your own.” When we’re isolated, we learn to manage, perform, and keep it together, while the real stuff stays hidden under shame and fear. Today, we go after that hidden layer and ask a simple, unsettling question: what’s the 3% you won’t say out loud, and what is it costing you?

I’m joined by Jamie and Blake, Nashville therapists and the voices behind the Three Percent Podcast. They share how trauma, attachment wounds, and 12-step recovery shaped the way they think about vulnerability, porn addiction recovery, and honest male friendship. We talk about why vulnerability can feel unsafe in your body, how emotions are meant to give you information (not embarrassment), and why “not everyone deserves your 3%” is just as important as learning to share it.

If you’re tired of surface-level living and ready for real connection, hit play, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the way out of hiding.

Resources from this episode:

• Three Percent Podcast 
• Three Percent Co 

Join us for the Awaken Retreat, a weekend designed to help men step out of isolation and into deeper honesty, healing, and connection.

October 9th -11th | Early Bird Registration Available More Information & Registration

Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:

👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)

Transcript

Why We Struggle Alone

Aaron 0:00

Most of us don't struggle because we're too weak. We struggle because we're too alone. We've learned how to manage, how to perform, how to keep it all together, but not how to be known. And so we build lives that look fine on the outside, while something inside of us quietly carries shame, fear, or loneliness. But what if the very thing we've been taught to avoid, vulnerability, is actually the doorway to healing? What if being honest about what's real is really where transformation begins? Today, we're talking about the power of vulnerability, not as a trend or a buzzword, but as a path for connection, freedom, and becoming whole. You're listening to the Becoming Whole podcast. I'm your host today, Aaron Tagert. I'm one of our spiritual coaches here at Regeneration, and today I'm joined by two incredible guys who are helping create spaces where people can step out of hiding and into honest life-giving connection.

Meet Jamie And Blake

Aaron 1:13

Jamie and Blake are the voices behind the 3% podcast. This is a podcast that started with a heart for men, but speaks to something much bigger: the human need to be known. Their message is simple, but not easy. Most people settle for surface level living, but there's a small percentage who are willing to tell the truth, the whole truth, take off the mask, and step into vulnerability. Through their conversations, they're challenging the way that we think about strength, honesty, and connection, inviting people out of isolation and into deeper, more authentic relationships. Jamie and Blake, uh, are also therapists in the Nashville area. Uh, and a strong plug, um, I know that their podcast is primarily for, for, for men, um, and what they're doing there, but I, I... You gotta listen to them. Jamie and Blake, it's really great to have you guys here.

Jamie 2:16

Man, Aaron, that's a-

Blake 2:17

Such a humbling intro

Jamie 2:19

Yeah, my goodness. That was, that was incredible.

Blake 2:21

I love that. Yeah. Usually it's, it's uncomfortably on the other end of an intro, but that was... As you were saying that, I was like, man, that's even more clearly articulated of what we're trying to do sometimes- Than we do we say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's super kind of you, and, yeah, we're really glad to have this conversation with you.

Aaron 2:40

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, when I, when I s- was thinking about, um, you know, what episode, you know, to do, to plan, you know, you know, we go through this, you know, kind of planning, and, and the idea of vulnerability came up, and I knew, like immediately, "Oh, I've, I've gotta get Jamie and Blake, uh, from the 3% on here." Mm. Um, because I just feel like, you know, from, from just listening to y- your guys' podcast, the 3%, um, I've been so encouraged and stirred and reminded of my own journey of- Mm the, the power of what happens when we're vulnerable. Mm. But the dichotomy is that we're not all in this place of, of real deep vulnerability. Um, and so that just gave me this beautiful idea, like let's, let's just talk and unpack a little bit about vulnerability today. But before we do that, I know our listeners would probably love to just get a little glimpse, uh, you know, from you guys. And, um, and I've listened to your podcast, so, like, if I, you know, hammer down, like for time, because I, I, I love how you guys can, can linger and you say like, "Oh, we're gonna la- land the plane," you know, five or six times before the plane touches down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, which I absolutely love. We circle the airport, yeah. That's right, yeah. Yeah, hadn't gotten clearance for landing yet.

Jamie 4:01

That's right.

Aaron 4:01

Um- Inclement weather. Yeah. Yeah, incl... Yeah, yes, yeah. Um, so yeah, guys, tell us a little bit about, um, about yourselves, kind of like your journey and how you got to the, the 3% podcast.

Jamie 4:20

Yeah. So,

Blake 4:21

um- You're the one that synthesizes things,

Trauma, Recovery, And The 3%

Blake 4:24

so why don't you take this? Yeah, let

Jamie 4:25

me... What'd you say? Hammer down? Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll get into it.

Blake 4:28

Give you an hour long answer to that question.

Jamie 4:30

Yeah. 'Cause i- if, if we go individually, um, you know, both Blake and I have a history of, of what in the therapy world they would call big T trauma. Like, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners are familiar with, uh, big T and little t trauma. It's in the zeitgeist for sure. But all that to say, we have big, painful experiences that both of us have had, uh, individually, and those were very different experiences, but both very painful. We also have lots of little t experiences, so smaller, as Dan Allender would say, the more subtle but satanic experiences that, um, led to us being in these attachment patterns that left us in pain and, and, and in need. And because of the combination of those experiences, which e- either of us would be happy to elaborate on, I'm not trying to stay vague- Mm-hmm I'm just trying to go quick.

Aaron 5:26

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jamie 5:26

No, that's

Aaron 5:27

good.

Jamie 5:28

Um, um, because of the combination of those experiences, both of us landed in 12-step recovery for porn addiction, and this was in 20... Uh, well, you went a little bit before m- me, and then I, I joined it in 2017. We met in 2018, March of 2018, and our sponsors were like, "Hey, you guys are the young dudes in here. You guys should date." And, uh- So they basically were like, hey... A, a pillar of 12-step, as many of your listeners will be familiar with, i- is to make phone calls. Mm-hmm. In my view, one of the greatest desires of the 12-step community is that you would be in just that, a community.

Blake 6:16

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 6:17

And so making the phone calls is a pillar because this has been a problem of isolation, the solution will come in connection. So they make you f- they make you call people, and really it felt forced. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, because many of these men were older than us, that's on its own a barrier to entry to that. So it was really gracious of our sponsors to be like, "Hey, you guys call each other and see if you can start building some connection there." We left that meeting, Blake immediately called me, and, uh, from then on, what was that? You know, eight, eight years ago. Eight years is, uh, 96 months. Fast math. Uh-

Aaron 6:58

Impressive.

Jamie 6:59

And-

Aaron 7:00

That's better than I could do.

Jamie 7:01

Yeah. And in those 96- That's awesome thank you, um, flex. In those 96 months, I would say there are probably a cumulative five months that we have not spoken on the phone. So we developed this really rich, if not pen pal-esque-

Blake 7:20

Yeah

Jamie 7:20

uh, relationship over the phone where we were checking in with each other and bringing what level of vulnerability we could to each other That's where the 3% idea comes in. When we entered into 12 step, we were, I would say, generously 50% honest-

Blake 7:39

On a good day

Jamie 7:40

yeah, with ourselves and other people. And in the meetings, you would experience e- ever greater levels of honesty. Um, as I'm sure with your groups that you lead, there's this level of honesty that people engage with that's really inviting and somewhat terrifying. Mm-hmm. And, and as we experience the ever greater levels of honesty and became comfortable being around it, what we started to recognize is that yet we were still coming back saying, "Hey, I, I slipped this week," or, "I acted out this week," or, "I had a relapse this week." And we started to name, well, the why of that is that at our very best, we are 97% honest, and it's the 3% that we keep to ourselves that binds us to shame and loneliness from which a lot of our other issues stem. And so we began to use 3% as a shorthand just in our friendship. This was not a business idea. Yeah. Just in our friendship, it was, I would call, Blake would call, and we would start the f- the conversation with, well, maybe there'd be some banter, some ribbing of each other. Like you said, we do like to- Mm-hmm we do like to poke fun at each other. So after you get through that, then it would be setting the stage for the necessary conversation by saying, "I need to share my 3% with you." And in asking for that, you are saying so much by saying so little.

Aaron 9:05

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 9:05

You're saying, "I'm scared. I feel ashamed. I believe in my body that you're gonna reject me when I tell you this."

Blake 9:15

Mm.

Jamie 9:15

I need compassion. I need, um, your attention, and I need it to be locked in, and I need safety." And in, in all of that, you can just say, "I need to share my 3% with you," and it sets the stage for that.

Blake 9:31

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 9:32

Mm. That's what it created in our friendship. And it was a permission slip to choose connection where otherwise there would be shame and loneliness. Mm. And that was kind of the basis for creating a business, of which we had other ideas first. We're never at a lack for ideas, Blake and I. Uh, and, uh, we had a different business idea first. We had a retreat in 2021 to talk about that, and on that retreat, I think it was probably a spiritual experience of saying, like, we have no energy towards this other idea that we would be very capable of and make good money doing. Mm. And instead it became clear we need to use our 3% idea to impact what it looks like for men... I, I mean, and it's welcomed in women, but the intention was to help men become safer with themselves, God, and others, and in being safe for themselves, they can create safety for other people. Mm. And what greater gift could we give other people than to offer them safety? And what greater gift could we offer ourselves than to choose that safety?

Aaron 10:46

Yeah. Yeah, that's so good. I mean, the... I, I hear like, um, like a code word, like s- like a safe word, you know? Like, if you're watching, uh, you know, uh, there's a particular Christmas movie, right, uh, that I'm thinking of, and the, uh, this couple, you know, goes... Uh, their parents are divorced. They go to, to a couple different places, uh, for, you know, their, you know, holiday family things. Their trip gets canceled, uh, and then they're kind of, like, found out that they were skipping out on Christmas with their families. Um, and then they have this kind of safe word, like if something unravels, uh, you know, when they're, when they're there, they, they say this code word. And, and to me, I kind of hear like, man, this 3% not only is... Maybe it started sort of as like a, a code word that, man, you just encapsulate so much in, "Hey, like I've got, I've got... I wanna share my 3%." Yeah. And it just re- reframes that entire, you know, what like... I mean, no matter how you guys are both maybe coming in, it's like, man, when you say that that 3%, it's like, okay, like face like Flint. Like, my, you know- Yeah my, my ears are up. Like, you know, I'm attuning. Yep. Um- Exactly man, beautiful.

Blake 12:01

Yeah, it's... It... When you understand the concept in I need to share my 3%, in six words it says what I'm about to say is scary, what I'm about to say I have likely shame around. I don't wanna say this, but I am choosing to because I value our relationship. I need you to not be sarcastic. I need you to not make a joke. I need you to really pay attention to what, uh, what I'm about to say. Like, it's... it communicates so many things that just makes it quicker, hopefully, to facilitate that deeper connection. And then when you... S- so originally we had a hat run, like we, we are very into kind of style, and we had these hats made before we even, like, launched the podcast. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we paid for 25 hats- Nice, nice and we just, like, sold them to our, sold them to our friends. And, uh, it's just a simple cap, and it's got a patch on the front that says 3%. And the intention was- If you're wearing that, you know, I may not wear a shirt that says, "Feel your feelings," uh, just because I, I just personally wouldn't. I believe in that, but I'm not gonna wear that. But if I have this cool looking thing that, that somebody's curious about... I haven't even told you this yet, Jamie. I've had a friend that wears the hat often, Brad.

Jamie 13:18

Mm.

Blake 13:18

And just the... And he always tells me, like, "Yep, somebody again asked me what 3% was." And just the other day he, he was like, "I'm to the stage of my life now where I'm playing, uh, pickleball on Saturdays with all the old guys in our neighborhood." And he said, "Some 60-year-old guy came up to me, and I was wearing the hat, and he said, 'What's 3%?'" And he was like, "I told him what it meant," and it turned into this hour-long conversation between him and this stranger where they were talking about faith and parenting and vulnerability and how it's hard to have friendships as a man as you grow through stages of life. And I was like- Wow "That's exactly what we hoped it would do." And so- Mm it's, uh, yeah, you're right, it is sort of like a code word to hopefully facilitate conversations that otherwise there's a lot of barriers to, to have that level of conversation. Yeah.

Aaron 14:10

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really, like, at the, at, at the core and heart of it, it's allowing yourself to be fully known.

Jamie 14:20

Mm-hmm.

Aaron 14:20

That's right. Um, and that's, and, you know, that's, and that's, that's how we're created, you know, to, to, to be known and to know. Um- Mm and I, I, I love that. The, the problem is, right, there, there's so many of us, uh, and, and even probably at times y- your guys's self, myself, you know, that, you know, kind of holds back somewhere, like, you know, that 3%. Um- Mm-hmm and it's this sort of leaning into, like, what maybe moves that marker to, to, to reach out, right? And to, to be known, to share, to be that vulnerable. And that's what we're talking about today, right, is the vulnerability behind that 3%. So why do you guys feel like people struggle so much with that vulnerability, at least that, that 3%? Hmm.

Blake 15:21

So many ways to answer that question

Jamie 15:23

The classic therapist answer of, "Well,

Why Vulnerability Feels Dangerous

Jamie 15:26

it depends."

Blake 15:29

What initially comes up for me when you ask that, Aaron, is Because the, that person's... O- one answer, it's not like this is the reason why. Very true. One of the reasons is because that person's vulnerability, God-given vulnerability, was not cultivated by the people who were meant to cultivate it, and maybe even- Mm-hmm were, or maybe even, uh, more tragic, not a, not even just the lack of cultivation, but maybe that vulnerability was abused.

Jamie 16:07

Yeah.

Blake 16:07

Or it was used for, um, something that it was not intended to. And so then if, if I'm, like, we're in the stage, both of us, where we have young kids, toddlers, and, I mean, talk about... I've never thought about it that way, but, like, uh, I am helping cultivate my daughter's vulnerability, sometimes more successfully than others. And so for a lot of our clients that we work with, a lot of the men we see, even in our- e- even in ourselves, that vulnerability was not cultivated, not handled with care, uh, was abused in cases. And so when you have that experience, then you just, you, you replicate the same thing in yourself. Um, and then you, you don't, uh, cultivate your own vulnerability. And then unfortunately, that gets to the point where you hit some sort of rock bottom, or there's some crisis in your life that then forces you to reckon with the lack of cultivating your own vulnerability. Because when you don't, then your, your, your bo- your nervous system tries to cope with that in all sorts of ways that can be, that could be damaging. So that's kind of the first, maybe a more broad, broad reason that comes to my mind.

Jamie 17:24

Yeah. I, I fully agree with it. Like, um, maybe to, to put it, i- it's a similar idea, but to put it maybe slightly differently, how has your vulnerability been held previously? I think if, um... Who is it that said, maybe it's Dan Allender again, uh, that everyone makes sense in the context of their story? Was that Dan? Um-

Blake 17:51

I don't know if he's the originator, but I've heard him say that.

Jamie 17:53

Yeah, right. Yeah. Uh, the originator of all ideas that Blake and I have. Um, so the, the idea being that none of what we struggle with in our experience as therapists is, is random. So, and in our stories, and I'll speak specifically for me- Those little T and big T experiences that I was referencing, one of the harmful ways that they colored not just those experiences but every experience since then is, well, how did my vulnerability in those spaces k- keep me safe or cause me to not be safe? Mm-hmm. And, uh, often there's a lot more experiences of caused me to not be safe when you're vulnerable. And-

Blake 18:49

Mm

Jamie 18:49

w- when we are children or developing, we don't have agency to affect what happens with our vulnerability. We just have to trust that our vulnerability is cared for.

Blake 19:02

Mm.

Jamie 19:03

Now, as adults, we have the ability to affect what happens with our vulnerability. That's what boundaries are.

Blake 19:10

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 19:11

And if, if people can't honor our vulnerability now, we can do something about that. But we don't know that in our bodies because our only experience with vulnerability is having no agency over what happens with our vulnerability. Mm. And if no one has properly cared for it when we had no agency- Mm then why in the world would we trust people with our, with our vulnerability now?

Blake 19:37

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 19:38

It's- Mm it's one of the phrases that I use often with my clients of like, "Of course you're not vulnerable. Why would you be vulnerable?"

Aaron 19:47

Mm.

Jamie 19:48

Th- this deserves to be a new idea for you, not one that you're familiar with. Your vulnerability was never treated with kindness, compassion, respect, autonomy, safety, none of it. So why in the world would you expect your body to believe that's how it'll be treated now?

Blake 20:05

Mm.

Jamie 20:06

Mm. And that- that's why vulnerability, in my opinion, is, is a choice that has to be made by everybody once you, once you learn that you now have different agency.

Blake 20:17

Mm-hmm.

Aaron 20:19

Mm. Yeah. And so I- I'm even hearing too, guys, like, as you're talking about that, like, there's a, there's a real need to To understand your experience with vulnerability, uh, from your story, and to know... So, like, in other words, really to know your story-

Emotions Are Data, Not Weakness

Aaron 20:40

Yeah behind these different places of, um, and experiences of vulnerability. I mean, I, I, I'm... My mind is just going 100 miles an hour right now, 'cause I can think of moments where I'm, I, I'm a, uh, I'm one of those emotional guys. Um, you know? I mean, I could almost cry on, like, a, a, a dime, you know? Like, just, um... But there were also seasons where it was like, okay, like, that's... Tough guys don't do that. Mm-hmm. Like, I can't, I can't, I can't be like this. I can't be seen this way. I've, I've gotta, I've gotta look like this to make people think this.

Jamie 21:19

Mm-hmm.

Aaron 21:20

Um, and so even just, like, yeah, there are so many places in our stories where, and it's not just a one, like a one-off, right? I think there are so many different places where we actually experience, "You know what? I did open up this one time, and this is where it got me." And so now maybe I made a vow or some sort of, you know, agreement that, "Man, I am never gonna open up again. You know, I am never gonna be known this way again." Right. Um, and that's a, that's a scary place to be.

Jamie 21:52

Yep. Well, it's even interesting, Aaron, that you say like, uh, "I'm one of these emotional guys." O- one, every time somebody comes into a session with me and they're like, "I'm not really emotional," I'm like- Yeah, that's true. Yeah "Let, let, let's check in again." And- What did

Blake 22:09

you say the, the only two emotions you ever experienced when you first started therapy?

Jamie 22:13

Um, the numb or angry, and that, that was real, right? Like, there's, the scale- Mm was all or nothing, essentially. Mm-hmm. Mm. And that's not because I was unemotional. As it turns out, Blake can attest, I'm a deeply emotional guy.

Aaron 22:29

Yeah.

Jamie 22:29

I had to work so hard to numb- Mm how acute my sense of feeling is. And the, the, the difference being, like, if you think about somebody with incredible eyesight, no one shames them for having a reaction-

Blake 22:48

Mm

Jamie 22:48

that is different than them to how acute their eyesight is. Mm. No one's like, "Wow. See much?" Like, that doesn't happen, yet our sense of feeling is the same thing as any other sense. It, it's a, it's a gift in and of, in and of what it is, and it gives us information. Mm. It... If you have an acute sense of feeling, 'cause I do still agree that there are ranges of, um, of the sense of feeling. Yeah. Some people feel more acutely than others.

Blake 23:19

Right.

Jamie 23:21

But that should be, uh, seen as a superpower- Mm just like we do when somebody's like, "Yeah, my sight, my eyesight's 20/10." You're like, "Whoa, that's crazy." When somebody's like, "I, I feel very acutely," they may be able to sense something that you cannot.

Blake 23:36

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 23:37

And what- Mm what a gift that is. We treated it into a w- or we've treated it as a weakness-

Blake 23:43

Mm-hmm

Jamie 23:43

because we don't know what to do with vulnerability.

Blake 23:47

Mm.

Jamie 23:47

Mm. That's the difference.

Aaron 23:49

Hmm.

Blake 23:50

I've never thought about it like that comparison to the other, how you framed it that way.

Jamie 23:56

Yeah.

Aaron 23:56

Mm-hmm. Yeah, me neither. The, like the sens- like the sensory like aspect of that, I love it. What a beautiful-

Blake 24:02

Yeah

Aaron 24:02

framing. And thanks for that reframe too, 'cause you're right. Like, um, yeah, I think by habit we can say things that we, we're, you know, even just like I said, I'm an emotional guy. Like, right, like we all... There's not a single one of us that don't like have emotions. You know, some of us maybe are just more in tune with some of those emotions or able to express those emotions or whatever, but you're absolutely right. I, I appreciate that reframe. I think I've actually heard you talk about that before on your guys' show too. Yeah. Um, yeah.

Jamie 24:28

Well, even as a way to celebrate, like even, e- even... I never hear somebody say, "I'm an emotional person," with a posture of celebration.

Aaron 24:39

Yeah.

Jamie 24:39

I- Yeah I just don't hear that happening, and I think the reality is, is if you feel that you are an acutely emotional person, what a gift you have-

Aaron 24:47

Mm.

Jamie 24:48

Mm to care for yourself and care for others, 'cause you have a greater sense of what you are feeling, which means that you have the easier opportunity to navigate to what you need, which means that you can create safety easier for yourself, which means that you can create safety for other people.

Blake 25:03

Mm.

Jamie 25:04

Mm-hmm. That's sick. Why do we not celebrate it that way? Yeah. Yeah. Instead we go, "You shouldn't feel that. Push it down. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Be a man. Men don't have emotions." And it's like- Mm no, that's, that's wild. That's how we misuse and mistreat other people.

Aaron 25:22

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jamie 25:24

I'm off my soapbox now.

Blake 25:25

Yeah. Jamie can debrief.

Aaron 25:28

Uh, yeah. No, it's so good, man. It's, it's, it's a needed... This, more conversations around this and, yeah, I think even, like emotions. Like, we could probably break this one episode down- Sure into, like, a whole season of, you know, topics and, and places to dive into that all kind of, you know, tie together with, with vulnerability. Um, and, uh, and I've seen the, the, the power of that, you know? Like in, in, in my life, you know, I remember, um, I got my start in recovery with Celebrate Recovery. Um- Nice and I was one of the youngest guys in, in the room. Kinda like you guys said, you're like, you're sponsored. Like, hey, you guys should date. Mm-hmm. Like, you guys are, you know, young. Yeah. Everyone else is on the older side, and I had that same experience. The guys were married, you know, get- you know, 20, 30-plus years, like going, you know, on the verge of divorce because of addiction and things like that. And I, I remember sitting there like, gosh, like what do I have to offer, like, these guys? Like, they're, they're so seasoned, like, they've got so much life, and, and here I am, this 20-something, like, just entering in. And just remember, like, and I'm like, well, I can share my story. Like, I can just share where I'm at, man. Yeah. And I saw the power of opening up. Um, and, and, and I, and I lead our men's ministry at our church, uh, here in southern Maryland. And on our very first men's retreat a few years ago, I shared my testimony, and man, that set this incredible tone for the whole weekend because guys were coming up left and right just sharing, "Me too, man." Like, "Hey, how did you do this? How do you do that?" Like, because when you're vulnerable with others, and this is where it gets, like in groups and things like that, there's such a beauty in the power of the vulnerability because it unlocks something for, for others, for them to get in touch with that own part of themselves that maybe- Right has been locked away for a little while.

Blake 27:26

Yep. Yeah. Vulnerability breeds vulnerability.

Aaron 27:29

Yeah.

Jamie 27:31

Yeah. Blake says

Aaron 27:31

that

Jamie 27:31

a lot.

Aaron 27:33

Yeah. I know, I've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. It's good, and it's so true. Yeah. As, like, listeners, yeah, vulnerability breeds vulnerability, and it's not... A- a- and I don't want to make it just like, oh yeah, so just be vulnerable. Like, it's great, it's easy. Man, it is... I- I- it's probably the hardest work of recovery.

Jamie 27:55

Nice.

Aaron 27:55

Yeah. Would you guys say, would you guys say that?

Blake 27:58

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Kyle

Jamie 27:58

and Aaron.

Blake 27:59

Still, every, yeah, every day. Like, we're doing this, doing the work we do as therapists and, and with 3%, and it's still the hardest thing. And I'm glad- Mm I'm really glad you made that point because not only is it hard-

Sacred Vulnerability And Wise Boundaries

Blake 28:14

the, if you're somebody listening and you've experienced the pain of not being vulnerable, and then you get a glimmer of the hope or the healing of being vulnerable, then it's tempting to trade one extreme for the other, and then start being vulnerable with everybody.

Jamie 28:34

Oof. Yeah, tell them.

Blake 28:35

And not everybody deserves, one of the things that- Yeah we say is not everybody deserves to know your 3%.

Aaron 28:41

Yeah.

Blake 28:42

I remember when, uh, early on, one of my first therapists, that was my story. Lack of vulnerability. Nobody knew anything about me. That led to a suicide attempt in high school. That led to addiction. You know, all this stuff. Like, lots of pain. Mm-hmm. And then I have this experience in recovery where I'm like, "Oh, this is one of the things that I've been missing that's led to these painful experiences, and now I want that with everybody." And I remember my therapist in passing say, "You know, not everybody deserve- like, not everybody needs to know everything. It's, it's okay." Mm-hmm. And I was like, it blew my mind. It was so profound, and there's probably, you know, he just said it so nonchalantly. Mm-hmm. And so that's, I think, an important thing is learning like, yes, vulnerability. We're advocating for vulnera- for vulnerability, for sharing your 3%, and as equally as important as being vulnerable is learning who is safe, who deserves to hold that, and sometimes you experience that in, like, a recovery program or with a, a mentor, or, um, o- obviously we're gonna be advocates of therapy being therapists, but that's one of the things I will work with with clients who maybe I, as their therapist, am the first safe person who has held or cultivated their vulnerability. And then we can use that as sort of a barometer of, uh, you're, like, testing the water a little bit of who, who can actually hold this well.

Jamie 30:21

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's sacred. Your vulnerability- So sacred is sacred. And- Mm-hmm. Love it

Blake 30:30

And if somebody's not addressing their own vulnerability, it's, it's gonna be hard for them to hold yours as sacred.

Aaron 30:39

Mm.

Jamie 30:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think there's a few things with that too, is like, um, who is safe for you? Mm-hmm. And then what does safe mean? Mm-hmm. Uh, because in- interest- this is, uh, Blake would know, this is a more recent thing that I'm realizing we need to discuss of like, what, what i- what does 3% imply and what does it not imply? I think there's a reality to which your actions, what lives in your 3%, have consequences.

Blake 31:13

Yeah. Mm.

Jamie 31:14

And, and what, what lives in your 3%, just because it has consequences, what we are advocating for is not that someone holds and hides the necessity- Mm-hmm of you owning your actions to those who you have harmed. Like, we still- Mm are big believers in repentance.

Aaron 31:33

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 31:33

The, what we are, what we are advocating for is that 3% creates the space that your actions are not who you are.

Blake 31:44

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jamie 31:45

So 3% gives you the ability to have someone, uh, be a safe place for you to land imperfectly, and then invite someone in to care for you as you try to heal and grow from those things.

Blake 32:00

Yep. Well said.

Jamie 32:01

And so there is freedom on the other side of sharing your 3% with somebody, even though sometimes freedom looks like repenting from things that we have done that we're not proud of. Mm-hmm. But you don't have the opportunity to repent and grow from those things if that 3% isn't shared. Yeah. And so the, the person on the other side of receiving that-

Blake 32:23

Yeah

Jamie 32:23

um, the re- what makes them safe is not that they hide things with you. What makes them safe is that they're willing to hold those things with you, and walk with you, and care for you as you own and live and become like Christ.

Blake 32:37

Yeah. Mm.

Aaron 32:41

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's... I, I love what you said there about, you know, the... And it's so true, like, you know, that actions have consequences, right? And that's where the shame, I think, shame is probably one of the biggest things that keep people stuck in that place of, um, uh, you know, of that vulnerability because it just, it's paralyzing. Um-

Jamie 33:02

Yeah

Aaron 33:03

you know? If I, gosh, if I let you in, are you gonna accept me? Are you gonna, you know, blah, blah, blah. I talk with guys in coaching all the time, you know, there's this phrase, and I know, I'm sure you guys have heard this too, you know, like, "If they only knew who I really was." And I'm like- Mm "Hmm, who are you really?" Like, uh- Not, yeah that's a shame, that's a shame statement, right? You're saying, like, this is how you th- you're thinking about yourself in this moment, and you're, like, what would you say about yourself? I'm a, I'm a this, I'm a that, right? And it's like, if they really knew me, you know, they would run or they wouldn't like. That's not the real you, and that's where shame convinces us that, you know, what we've done is who we are. Um- Yeah instead of like you're saying, like no, there's a separation, uh, uh, between that and the self, and, and there are consequences, right? Like, our actions do, you know, bear consequences. You know, good actions a lot of times have some good consequences, you know? And we wouldn't call those necessarily consequences, but it's still that relationship. It's a consequence of this other thing happening. Um- Yeah and so I love how you guys kind of, you know, talk about that. So I guess a- another question from me is how does somebody find that then? Like, how do you, like, how do you know who can, who can be that safe person? Who, like who, you know, like so, uh, you know, if I'm, we got listeners right now thinking like, man, like, um... You know, we did a, we did a, actually we did a webinar

Finding Safe People And Starting Small

Aaron 34:37

not too long ago, and one of the questions at the end of it was, "Hey, I'm a part of a church and, um, and I wanna, you know, I wanna start, you know, doing some of this, you know, kind of entering into more kind of, you know, maybe, um, sexual recovery type stuff or whatever with guys in my church, you know? And like, but nobody's, nobody's, like, expressing any interest or want." Like, so to me I'm like, "That, this guy feels so alone." Yeah. Like- Yeah you know, how does so- how does somebody find that safety to be able to enter into that vulnerability? What would you guys say?

Blake 35:14

I'm ready.

Jamie 35:15

Okay.

Blake 35:15

I'm gonna lead with the- Yeah. I'm gonna lead with a story.

Jamie 35:17

Yeah, hit 'em.

Aaron 35:19

Awesome.

Blake 35:21

I was-- I'll lead with a story, and then I'll explain why. I was working with this client, late 40s, uh, and he every year would go on this fly fishing trip with his buddies from college. They'd always go to, like, this beautiful destination, different parts of the country, and go fly fishing. And he'd done it for however many, 20, 20 years or something. Um, and he was in a tough spot in his life and in his marriage, and he-- The 3% concept was something that resonated with him and that was helping him work through his own story. And he-- His, his friendships kind of lacked a level of vulnerability and intimacy that he wanted. Anyways, he was talking about going on this trip and, and I was, uh, encouraging him to share with these guys, like with his friends, kind of what he was going through. And he didn't say it this directly, but the, the response was this sort of like, "Well, no, that's what I come to you for. Like, we're gonna go have fun and catch fish. I'm not gonna let them know what's really going on." And I'm like, "Dude, these are your best-- These are your friends from college. You guys do this once a year. What's the point of going if you can't do that?" Not in a shaming way, and I didn't say that directly, but long story short, he goes very courageously decided to start to share with some of the guys what was really going on. And he came back from that trip, and I'll never forget it. Like, reported that it was the best trip that they ever had. They didn't actually catch any fish that year. But he said there was probab- there was maybe a group of 10, 12, and about six other guys opened up about something- Mm-hmm that was really going on in their lives. And he was like, "Blake, we would've gone, fished, had a good time, talked about sports and work, and left, and nobody would've known what was actually going on in our lives."

Aaron 37:20

Mm-hmm.

Blake 37:21

So I use that story as an example to say there might be people, like, in your vicinity that are longing for the same thing you are, but you don't know. And I always share this with people that are asking, like, they're expressing this longing, and then, and then I'll be like, "Well, do you think any of your friends or coworkers or people that you do life with, um, do they know that you have this, this longing?" And they're like, "Well, no, 'cause I've never really talked about it." And I was like, "So does that mean that maybe one of them could be having the same longing and you don't know 'cause they've not talked about it?" They're like, "Yeah, I guess." Mm-hmm. So it's, it can get a little, again, it can get nuanced and, you know, there are certainly people who you think are safe and maybe aren't, and you don't experience that until you take some risks. But I, I think that there are people around you who want this. Um, and, and there's a, an element to which, maybe you could speak to this, Jamie, where, like, you test the waters a little bit. Um, 3%, sharing your 3% does not have to look like sharing your deepest, darkest secret. You know? Mm-hmm. 3% could be, "Hey, I really, um- Like this is this desire I have for friendship. Like, that's, that's vulnerable to, to say. I wanna, I wanna have- I wanna talk about things just beyond-

Jamie 38:49

Yeah

Blake 38:49

news, weather, and sports. Um.

Jamie 38:52

Like where on the spectrum of vulnerability are you with this person as of now? 'Cause you don't have to jump all the way to 100.

Blake 38:59

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 38:59

Mm-hmm. You can, maybe you're at 50.

Blake 39:01

Yeah.

Jamie 39:02

Go to 60.

Blake 39:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jamie 39:04

Um, uh, and only you can really determine what 60 is for you. But every step beyond what you are comfortable with now is gonna feel stretching.

Blake 39:14

Mm-hmm.

39:15

Hmm.

Jamie 39:15

And, uh, one thing that I often say to people I work with is that it will always feel like a choice. Vulnerability is not something that will happen to you. It is something you will choose.

Blake 39:29

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jamie 39:30

And, and so I, I say compassionately to everybody listening to this, I, I know it's scary and, and I know it's a big ask and, and that I'm not asking you to do something because I want you to do a hard thing. Uh, we ask the people we work with to do this because we know that it, it will change your life and it is- Yeah worth doing. Mm. Not because it's a hard thing that we think is, you know, holy or whatever. Like we, we have seen this change our lives and that's why we encourage it in, in other people. I also think, um- It is important to highlight that on the trip that Blake was talking about, uh, there were, like, four to six guys who didn't say anything.

Blake 40:19

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 40:21

Mm. And so maybe you are experiencing, like, you'll share something, and you'll be like, "Ah, dang, they were all talking about how all these dudes shared on that trip." Uh, I wanna highlight there are people who will be around vulnerability who, who may, may not be going through anything, I mean, good for them, and then- Mm also who may still, when they're around it, be terrified of bringing themselves to it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and that's a reality that actually says something about where they are, not where you are.

Blake 40:51

Yeah. Mm.

Jamie 40:52

And- Great point. And so, like- Mm-hmm I think it was deeply courageous of Blake's client to share of himself. Again, vulnerability breeds vulnerability. The steps to get there are, are small. Stack them. Mm. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That, another thing to highlight is that Blake's client had decades of relational equity with these people, so there's decades of safety built there. Yeah. He chose people who were safe, not some guy that he just met.

Blake 41:25

Mm.

Jamie 41:26

Mm. So make sure, again, highlighting you need to do this with someone who's safe. Don't start with everybody. Start with the safest person you know. Mm-hmm. If you are looking to build safety with someone because you don't have the... I, I have worked with plenty of people who don't have the gift, and I do mean the gift, of a good friendship.

Aaron 41:48

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 41:48

Mm. Um, I have worked with plenty of people who don't have one. Yeah. And if you are looking to build your first one, I will tell you what Scott Erickson said on our podcast is that there are people out there who are looking for friendship with you as well. You may just be looking in the wrong place for your friendship. Mm. Notice where people are in proximity to you that you may be ignoring because they're not the person you are, like, seeking friendship with.

Blake 42:16

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jamie 42:17

Because there, there, there's opportunity for friendship around you, and it is looking in the places where the opportunity is. And the grass is not greener on the other side. The grass will be greener where you water it. Mm. So where that friendship is available, water that friendship, and then as you water that friendship and develop the 10%, 20%, 30% vulnerability, you'll get to the place where you have an opportunity for 3%. And if you still need a tool all the way there, I know I'm getting verbose here, if you still need- a tool when you're at, like, 90%, and you're like, "I'm still so frigging scared of this last 10%"- Use our podcast. Share an episode- Mm with them that's in the topic that you're scared to share about.

Blake 43:03

It's facilitated a lot of conversations.

Jamie 43:05

It has. Mm. Share it and say, "Hey, there's some stuff in this that I wanna talk about, and I'm curious what your thoughts are." And, and then- Yeah just allow that to be the door opening to get in there. And again, even once you open that door, it's still gonna be scary, it's still gonna be vulnerable.

Blake 43:22

Yeah, it's always gonna be uncomfortable.

Jamie 43:24

Yeah. Maybe you don't share- Yeah everything all at once. It was uncomfortable for us, and we met in 12 step. You know? Yeah. Like, it was still chosen. There's still a reason we needed the permission slip to share it. There's a reason this- Yeah exists at all.

Aaron 43:36

Yeah.

Jamie 43:36

Is 'cause we- Yeah needed language to give us permission to do it. That's right,

Aaron 43:41

yeah.

Jamie 43:41

So that-

Aaron 43:42

It is beautiful that

Jamie 43:43

was a lot, but there you go.

Aaron 43:44

No, it's... No, it's good. And it makes me think too, you know, as Jay Stringer talks about in Unwanted, about, you know, so often we are hurt by others, but we also find healing through others, right? And it does require that vulnerability, um, to, to, to enter into that. Um, you know, another, another quote too I've heard in, in recovery, uh, is, you know, that, um, oh, I'm blanking. I just had it a second ago. Um, oh, the opposite of addiction, uh, is connection. Um- Absolutely r- right? And so to, to find, you know, your... Find your people. Um, you know, uh, as Drew Holcomb and the Neighbors, you know, sing about, uh, you know. Mm-hmm. Find your, find your people. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm just thinking of that song right now. Anyway, uh- Great song but there, there's, there- there's something... Yeah, there's, and there's actually some really good nuggets in there, man. You know? Yeah. Talking about, you know, find the people, the ones that, you know, are, are, are gonna, you know, be with you, you know, in the thick and the thin, and not run, and know the difference between, you know, like, "Hey, this isn't who you are." Um- Yeah you know, but, uh, that, that type of thing. So, um-

Jamie 44:59

And gosh, just to reiterate, Aaron, that's real safety, man. Mm-hmm.

Aaron 45:03

Like- Yeah

Jamie 45:03

the people who hold you accountable and don't go anywhere. Yep.

Aaron 45:07

That's it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right, I've seen that too with others, right? It's like, "All right, what was your experience?" Like, "I mean, I shared this, and they stayed." Like- Exactly they didn't go anywhere. They, they, they, they didn't look at me like I was some freak or, you know, whatever. It was just like, holy crap, this person is with me right now- Yeah in the midst of what I just shared.

Jamie 45:31

Yep. Well, and accountability for me at, you know, at a young age, was treated with harm.

Aaron 45:37

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 45:37

You know? So- Yeah like the... A big roadblock for, I think, many people in the Christian faith is, like, how... What did accountability mean to you growing up, and how was it treated? Like, were you, were you condemned and punished when you did w- wrong? 'Cause w- what we're in pursuit of here is, is healing, becoming like Christ, um, and being known and loved. And so the purpose of accountability now is to find freedom, and so the purpose of sharing your 3% is, um, yeah, is just that, man. Like when people stay now, that you, you're navigating that roadblock of, of shame, um, so that you can experience what it really is to be loved. Mm. That's what we hope for everybody who shares their 3%, is that they can experience maybe for the first time what it is to be fully known and fully loved.

Aaron 46:33

Yeah. Amen, man.

Jamie 46:35

Yep.

Aaron 46:35

And you feel that. Like that, there's so much hope in that. Um, you know, and that's such a good... I don't know, it's just even a stepping stone. I don't know why, but Ezekiel 47 is coming to mind. You know, the, with the, it's where the, the river starts from the temple as like a trickle. Mm. And Ezekiel sees this priest and he, you know, he, he measures out four different times and, and invites Ezekiel to come deeper in and deeper in. Mm. And, and I- I've often heard that associated... It's actually like a life verse of mine, but, uh, uh, I've heard it more associated with like an invitation to come deeper into God's love. But I even see it now as like this invitation to get deeper into vulnerability. Yeah. Um, and, and no matter where you're at, there's an invitation to, hey, just... You're at 90, you know, 6%. Like, let's get- Mm. You know, let's get to that final four and then the three and, you know. And so there's just this invitation, and that is such the Lord's heart- Yeah. Yeah uh, behind all this, is just an invitation to like, hey, I know, uh, I know you, and I'm still here. Like I- Whoo haven't gone anywhere.

Jamie 47:43

Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come to me- Yeah all you who are weary and heavy laden-

Aaron 47:48

Yeah and I

Jamie 47:48

will give you rest. Yeah, dude.

Aaron 47:50

Yeah. Amen. Amen. Guys, what's the final thing that you would share just about vulnerability with, with a listener today?

Jamie 47:59

I, I think, so this is something I've been talking about lately, so this comes to mind.

Aaron 48:05

Yeah.

Jamie 48:06

Um, you've probably heard a lot, uh, if you're on social media in the mental health space at all about gaslighting. And, um, I think

Final Takeaways, Resources, And Prayer

Jamie 48:17

that when it comes to our vulnerability, the first person that we gaslight is not someone else, it's ourselves. Mm. So we will convince ourselves that we don't have to be vulnerable about something. Uh, and we have so convinced ourselves or befriended that we are rejectable, that we're not worth loving if we're known, if... That, that we are unworthy of the gift of grace. Which- Mm you know, grace is a gift freely given to us. So, uh, we will convince ourselves of that. And in order to maintain that, we will convince others that they're seeing something and they're crazy. Mm. And so the last thing that I would say about vulnerability is navigating to it may feel like you're navigating through some of these protective lies that you've created. Mm. Like, you may be- Mm so familiar with things that you created to take care of you that you don't know what it is to be vulnerable because you have a hard time being vulnerable with yourself.

Aaron 49:24

Mm.

Jamie 49:25

And, and so some of that is going to start with having the compassion to go, um, where are the places that I have built protective walls around my 3%?

Blake 49:40

Yeah.

Jamie 49:40

That even I'm not allowed into.

Blake 49:42

Yeah.

Aaron 49:42

Mm. Mm. Dude, that's good.

Blake 49:46

Yeah.

Aaron 49:47

How about you, Blake?

Blake 49:48

I'm gonna actually be short and sweet. Yeah, do it.

Aaron 49:50

Mm.

Blake 49:51

Let's see if I don't expound on it.

Jamie 49:52

Nice.

Blake 49:54

Vulnerability is exposure, and exposure is an act of grace if you allow it to be.

Aaron 50:03

Mm.

Jamie 50:04

Ooh.

Aaron 50:06

Exclamation point. Or period. Yeah.

Jamie 50:10

Yeah, absolutely.

Aaron 50:12

Yeah. Mm, that's good. Well, I'm gonna talk then so you don't expand. Uh. Now, hey, hey, guys, as we, as we wrap up today, is there anything that you guys wanna highlight just as in way of what you're doing? And, you know, I, you know, I, I know, you know, I could talk about The Basement, but it's not cool if I talk about it because it's, like, something, you know, that, that you guys have, and I'm sure it could bless some of our listeners. But yeah, anything you guys have coming up or just kinda wanna, you know, take a little bit of time to highlight?

Jamie 50:43

I think thank you for that. Uh, there, there's a lot of things we're going to hopefully be

Blake 50:49

A lot of things in the works.

Jamie 50:50

Yeah. W- we are, we are a company that is in a building phase, and so it feels like we are consistently coming up with new things right now. One of the cool things that we hope to do soon is to create, um, even like an assessment to understand where your 3% may be hiding in yourself. Mm. Um, but o- one of the, the resources we have as of right now that we think could be helpful to people, one, if you go to our website and you're interested in some just emotional regulation, n- noticing what's going on within yourself, inviting God and others into that, we have a four-step method that you can find called the Pause, Pray, Process, Express method. It's on our website- Mm that you can just sign up for. The second... And that's free. That's a free resource. You can go check it out, 3percentco.com. The second resource is The Basement. That's a paid community, and in there we offer reflection guides, weekly reflection guides for our episodes, and a monthly Q&A episode that is just for our Basement community.

Blake 51:57

Where they an- Mm ask questions and

Jamie 51:59

we answer them. They ask questions, we answer them on a podcast episode. That is exclusive for them. And that one is about two lattes per month. It's $10 a month.

Blake 52:11

There

Jamie 52:11

you go.

Blake 52:12

Um- Maybe one

Jamie 52:12

latte if you're international maybe one latte. Yeah, that's right. Um- So those are the two big things, and then of course our podcast comes out every Monday.

Blake 52:20

Yep.

Jamie 52:21

And we have 50 episodes now that you, you can certainly go find, um, one where you might see a piece of yourself in what we're talking about.

Blake 52:32

Yeah. Yep.

Jamie 52:33

Mm. So subscribe to that- That's awesome and send it to every single one of your friends.

Aaron 52:39

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I know I've, I've shared it, man. Like, you know, like I said earlier, like, you know, Andrea, shout out to Andrea on staff. She shared- Wow Thank you, Andrea you, you guys with me, yeah. And, uh, and I've shared several episodes with friends who I know of, like, going through different things. Like you said, it's such a beautiful way to even enter in. Like- Yeah maybe I wanna say something to, to my friend, but I don't know exactly how to enter in, so I share this, you know, "Hey, I, I know what's going on," you know, a little bit like, "Hey, listen to this. Like, let's, let's talk." You know, how does that- Amen how, how did that, how did that hit you? You know, what, what, what were you resonating with? Like, what was hard? Like, um, such a beautiful doorway to, to really great conversation. Um- Love that so yeah, guys, um, thank you so much for joining, uh, me today on Becoming Whole. And, uh, as I go out here, I just wanna say, uh, a closing word, and that at the end of the day, vulnerability is a risk. It's gonna cost you something. It might be your image, it could be your comfort or your control. But staying hidden will actually cost you more. It'll cost you connection, it will cost you freedom, it will cost you the life that you were actually made for. So the question, listeners, isn't if you're going to risk something, it's what you're willing to risk. Because on the other side of vulnerability is the life you've been longing for, a life where you're not performing but known, not managing but free, not alone but connected, and that's the invitation, and it starts with vulnerability and telling the truth. Let me pray us out. Jesus, thank you so much for your presence in our lives, for even the places now that you might be stirring within us, Lord, uh, that are or feel vulnerable. And Lord, by your grace, would you just gently move us, Lord, deeper and deeper into these places of vulnerability, that no matter where we're at, Lord, with our own experience and journey of vulnerability, Lord, that, that there's an invitation, Lord, to go deeper and to share more, um, Lord, with those that we feel safe with, Lord. Um, and so just show us those people, Lord. Show us, uh, those opportunities and moments to allow ourselves to open up, Lord, and to experience greater healing and wholeness. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.