The Feeling Beneath the Feeling

Anger can feel like the problem, but what if it’s actually the cover story? Aaron Tagert and James Craig pull on a thread that has reshaped their coaching conversations: sadness often starts in the gut, rises toward tears, and when we block it, it can convert into anxiety in the chest or burst out as anger from the mouth. That shift matters for anyone who feels stuck in frustration, shame, or emotional shutdown and can’t figure out why the smallest things set them off.

We get practical and personal, talking about jaw tension, tight chests, fatigue, and the subtle ways our bodies reveal what our words won’t. We also name how selective numbing shows up in real life, including patterns like pornography use, compulsive scrolling, food, sugar, fantasy, and other forms of escape. The point isn’t to moralize; it’s to understand emotional regulation and the hidden grief underneath so we can pursue real healing, deeper connection, and lasting integrity.

We keep it rooted in Christian discipleship and recovery: Jesus never bypasses emotion, Jesus wept, and Scripture makes space for lament, sorrow, and joy. You’ll hear simple questions to ask when you feel numb, anxious, or angry, plus a guided reflection you can try this week to move from reacting to responding. If you’ve ever thought, “I don’t have feelings, I just get mad,” this conversation gives you a new map.

Subscribe, share this with someone who lives on the edge of frustration, and leave a review so more people can find practical, hope-filled tools for emotional health and spiritual growth.

Resources from this episode:

• Three Percent Podcast Conversation w/ Dr/ Flanagan
• Awaken Retreat
• Sacred By Design Retreat 2026

Join us for the Awaken Retreat, a weekend designed to help men step out of isolation and into deeper honesty, healing, and connection.

October 9th -11th | Early Bird Registration Available More Information & Registration

Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:

👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)

Transcript

Anger As A Clue

Aaron 0:18

What if the anger you wanna get rid of is actually trying to introduce you to the sadness that needs your attention? A few weeks ago, I was listening to the 3% podcast, and they had Dr. Kelly Flanagan on there, who was speaking from his newer book, The Road Less Triggered. And what he was talking about around sadness and anger and anxiety absolutely blew my mind. I haven't been able to stop talking about it. I brought it to our staff, uh, to our coaches, um, and they share the same sentiment. And so here we are today, uh, unpacking that. Um, one of the things that's, has stuck with me over the last couple weeks since hearing that conversation is this statement: What if anger isn't your deepest emotion? What if it's actually protecting something much more vulnerable? And I gotta tell you, as coaches, we've seen this play out over and over again. Men who say they don't have feelings except frustration, or husbands who explode after months of silence, or wives who carry resentment because sadness has never felt safe enough to express Welcome in, friends, to another episode of Becoming Whole. I'm Aaron Taggart, one of our men's spiritual coaches at Regeneration, and I'm so excited to sit down with James Craig, who's also one of our men's spiritual coaches and our director of projects, to unpack, uh, the conversation that we have heard, why it's been so impactful, and to bring it before you all today. James, welcome in, bro.

James 2:10

Aaron, I'm so grateful you shared this podcast with me. I, I actually created a Spotify clip, this is my first time doing this, where I took the chunk we're gonna talk about today, and I just created, like, a 15-minute clip. I've been sharing with clients a lot because I'm finding a lot of benefit from this way of thinking about sadness, anger, and fear, and that so- and incredible benefit as well.

Aaron 2:32

It's... Yeah, I'm so excited to, to be able to just bring this to everybody today, and why, uh, why it's been so impactful. Um, so let- let's go ahead and, and dive in. Um, I wanna begin just by sort of framing up what felt so, um, I don't know, for whatever reason, just uniquely different. So he begins, uh, by talking about sadness, and how when we experience sadness, it has an origination. We actually experience sadness in our, in our guts. Um, and even before it's a, a, I would say, maybe an identified feeling of sadness, we- our body experiences it. So it starts out as this feeling, even physiologically, in our guts. And he says, um, he actually, you know, asked, um,

How Sadness Moves Through The Body

Aaron 3:28

some kids, you know, like, "If you were to express full sadness, like, where does it, where does sadness end, exit our bodies?" And all the kids were like, "Through tears, through tears, through the crying." And if you think about that, it is so true. Full expression of sadness, which begins in our guts- Is expressed through tears in our eyes. However, he goes on to say in this conversation that there are some things that get in the way of that full expression of sadness, and some other things that happen in our bodies as well. So it ex- it starts in our guts, it's moving up. So maybe you can, uh, imagine, listener, a time where you experienced, um, some deep sadness, loss, grief, something even maybe not, uh, uh, as intense as, as those things. You know, not being seen, not being heard, uh, being overlooked. R- something that, that makes you sad. Um, and again, that feeling, maybe you identify that as well, starting in your gut. I do want you to pay attention to that next time, um, that that might happen. But as it travels up, uh, it reaches, um, it reaches our chest, and then it tries to get, again, to our eyes, but some things get in the way sometimes. One, we might try to stuff that down and not let it, um, not let it be expressed. Um, and Dr. Flanagan talks about that is actually a place where we begin to experience anxiety, um, and some different anxiousness around, "Oh my gosh, there's this feeling and it's uncomfortable. I don't want it. What do I do?" And we don't want it to come out because maybe that feels too vulnerable. We can't control our sadness, um, and so we try to stuff it down. The other thing he said is that before it can get to our eyes, at the very last minute, it might come out of our mouths, and when it does that, it typically comes out as anger And they talk about how that actually is a way of trying to control the sadness. Because when that sadness comes up, we can't always control y- y- you know, I, I know there have been times where I've expressed sadness, and I'm a weeping mess. Um, it is just flowing. Like the floodgates have been opened, and I am like, you know, crying, you know, like they might say, like a baby. Um, just really letting loose on the tears. And I had no, no plan on doing that. Or being in another situation where, you know, I'm speaking or something, and all of a sudden, um, I've got some tears flowing, and it's like, "Holy cow, I didn't think that reaction was gonna happen." But there's like, there's sadness in that, right? And so sadness doesn't l- we don't always control what the tears look like. But with anger, we... It's a, it's a sort of false attempt to try to control uh, that sadness. James, w- it's like-

James 6:51

It's like a last, last ditch effort. I mean, it's like a goalie, right?

Aaron 6:54

Yeah.

James 6:55

Trying to stop the final score.

Aaron 6:58

One, 100%, right? Um, and so we wanna talk, you know, uh, we wanna u- unpack this a little bit, just ways that w- that it's impacting us, and why it's so profound to, to us. I've just, I've never heard anyone articulate sadness in this way, and, and I'm gonna, I'm totally gonna encourage you guys to go check this out. We'll have a link in our show notes to that episode from Three Percent. Um, would love for you guys to, to check this out, uh, to listen to Dr. Flanagan talk about it, and the guys on Three Percent sort of unpack this, um, with him. Maybe at some point we'll even get him on here. I think it would be totally worth it. But James, what are, what are some of the things that really are, you know, uh, when I shared this, and, a- a- and, you know, it, it hit you. Like, what was, what was so new or sort of revolutionary about this for you?

James 7:52

First of all, I just wanna say that we, we did a episode somewhat recently about anger, and anger can be a primary emotion. Uh, you know, I'm learning right now in school, Aaron, that you wanna read Job and Proverbs together, because Proverbs tell how things typically are, you reap what you sow, things like that. But Job tells how things

Anxiety And Anger Block Tears

James 8:13

can still be in God's economy. You can suffer in a sense, in a s- what feels like a senseless way. You can, it doesn't mean you've done something wrong if you're suffering. So you've gotta read Proverbs and Job as a way to get a full-orbed picture. So I just wanna, uh, encourage our listeners, anger can be primary, but we're gonna focus today on anger being secondary emotion. And we'll have our, a, a link to our, our prior episode about that. But this hits me personally, Aaron, because I can see throughout my life so many ways that I stop sadness right in my jaw, and I have a really tense jaw. You know, Andrea, who I did that anger episode with, her husband's a TMJ specialist dentist, right? She's one of our, Andrea's one of our colleagues, and her husband's a dentist. And so much TMJ is actually anger trapped in the jaw, because people haven't known how to express, perhaps in this case, the sadness underneath it. So as I'm growing in my own walk, Aaron- I'm realizing that I've kept so much anger like a goalpost in my jaw. And in prior seasons, Aaron, I've also kept a ton of anxiety in my chest. I've dealt with seasons of really acute anxiety. Interestingly, the anxiety never really came in an acute way until I stopped watching porn and masturbating. In other words, things have-- things got way harder because what was happening was I was actually tamping that down even further. In, in a sense, I was almost pushing the sadness below my gut, if, if I can take his image and, and use it that way. Like, I was like, "I'm not even gonna let the sadness be in my gut. It's gonna be medicated all the time." And so as I've been on a journey of growing in, uh, you know, dealing with anxiety or anger, I've had to recognize, Aaron, I have a lot of sadness that needs to be processed from my gut. And listeners, if, if you grew up in a household, um, where tears were not valued, this might be a really hard thing to even consider. Like, wait, do I, do I need to actually cry out some tears that have long been there? Let me just share a quick vignette. Um, I know someone who in fifth grade, they moved to a new school They cried all the time. They, they cried on a dime. Uh, they probably had a lot of grief from their home life, but, but they cried really easily. And so in this new school, this person said, "I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna cry anymore. I'm not gonna let my tears flow when I feel sad or hurt or snubbed. I'm gonna stop that." Guess when this person's pornography addiction began? This exact season. The exact time that they stopped allowing tears to flow. And I, I'm not saying their life was easy. I mean, to be able to cry at any given time, Aaron, that's hard. I mean, kids are not kind to that kind of thing, and, and many adults aren't either, right? So I, I have so much compassion for this person. But when she made this agreement that she would no longer cry, there's no other place to take it besides somewhere to medicate. So I think this is really important, not just for growing as a human, growing as a follower of Jesus. This is important for those who are seeking sexual integrity.

Aaron 11:31

Oh, 100%. And, and, and like you said, too, um, I mean, if we think about, uh, if we think about sadness, even as you're talking about, like, stuffing it down, and if we don't want to experience, you know, sadness or even other feelings, you know, and we try to stuff those things down, ultimately the only way to not sort of think about those, I mean, we'll still experience them, but maybe we're so, so hypervigilant to not allow ourselves to express any of them that, that, you know, essentially what, like what you're talking about, we n- we numb them. You know, we, we medicate those things, right? We medicate and numb, um, those hard experiences and feelings, the traumas that we experience, right? Um, because we can get lost in, uh, a world of fantasy,

Jaw Tension And Hidden Grief

Aaron 13:23

uh, you know, or through, you know, like you said, porn and masturbation. Like, we might just allow all these different things in just so that we're not allowing ourselves to feel and to experience, um, you know, these things. Which, uh, yeah, go ahead.

James 13:42

I've been saying a lot recently, Aaron, this might not be 100% true, but I think we often have two choices, to feel our pain with Jesus and save others or to sin. I'm not sure that I'm right that it's 100% that, but I do think so much of my stuffing my face with food or sugar, so much of my going, uh, to video games to, to escape from reality, and so much of my past with porn and masturbation, I can see a very clear connection between not knowing how to suffer, not having the maturity to suffer well as the life model puts it, and going to these particular sin patterns.

Aaron 14:20

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think about, um, uh, as soon as I heard this, I mean, I immediately went to some of Brene Brown's work, you know, with the selective numbing. Mm. Um, you know, as we, a- as we, uh, you know, again, don't wanna experience something, we think, "Oh, I could shut down, I could shut down the sadness," you know? "It's not gonna be welcome here. I'm gonna shut that down." Or, you know, if it's anger, 'cause you're right, anger is a primary emotion as well. Uh, what we're trying to really get at, though, is how often might our anger actually be something else- Yes right? So this is kinda like the feeling- Mm-hmm beneath the feeling today. Um, and if we allow- Yeah some space for ourselves to actually even ask the question in, in difficult moments where you might feel even anxiety or rage or anger rising up, what is going on inside me right now? Um, I know often, you know, when it, ironically enough, when I get frustrated with my kids, um, sometimes I, I get, I get pretty angry, and I could start yelling. And when I take a moment and I think, like, "What is going on inside me right now?" You know what comes up? Nobody's listening to me.

James 15:38

Mm.

Aaron 15:38

My kids aren't listening to me, and this takes me back to a place where I didn't have a voice.

James 15:46

Mm-hmm.

Aaron 15:46

And you don't just get there, man. You have to reflect. You have to allow yourself that space. And even, and even some of that work, um, it made me tear up a little bit right now just because, like, you know, I could- Yeah I could feel that.

James 16:00

Yeah.

Aaron 16:01

Um, and that's what we're trying- For me,

James 16:03

Aaron-

Aaron 16:03

Yeah,

James 16:04

yeah well, just to jump in with a very fresh example from literally today, in a similar manner, I was realizing that I, I was carrying anger towards someone, really painful situation. I had a lot of fear actually as well, like I kinda see both layers, fear of how this would, how this would go. But at the deepest level, there was this grief, this sadness around feeling crushed or humiliated, feeling like a tender reed that's broken or a, a bruised reed that's broken or a tender, uh, uh, a smoldering wick that's snuffed out. Mm-hmm. And so at the anger level, at the fear level, and ultimately at the sadness level, I think the same grief, the same struggle with will I be crushed, will I be humiliated, or will someone actually love me in this place, treat my, my weakness with tenderness, that, that question is there. And until I was able to actually get it out through tears, um, with a, with an awesome man who happens to run our ministry named Josh Glazer- 'cause he made space for that. Um, until I was able to actually get that out, I was having so much trouble connecting it with Jesus actually. Mm. But as we were praying and, and I was able to let out the tears, um, so much of the anger dissipated, so much of the fear dissipated, and I sensed, a- and I even kinda got a vision in my mind of Jesus being with me in it. And so I, I really think th- this invitation to sadness or grief is never an invitation to being alone- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm or to being miserable. It's actually an invitation to being with Jesus, being with- Safe others who wanna love us in these places so that we're not, again, taking them to all kinds of other places.

Aaron 17:50

Yeah. Absolutely, man. I mean, um, community, right? Being, being seen and experiencing this with others, uh, is also gonna bring healing, right? That's one of our... I- it's one of the three Cs, right? You know, you need, you know, good content in recovery. You know, you need community, um, coaching. Like, you just... But, but community is huge. Like, to be able to- Yeah

Numbing Pain Also Numbs Joy

Aaron 18:13

vulnerably express emotion, uh, in a healthy way in front of others, especially if that's part of your story, like, that you haven't been able to do or w- wasn't welcome. Um, like, that can be so, so healing. So man, I'm, I'm, I'm thankful that you had that, uh, opportunity and that people like Josh, you know, are in your life and, uh, that I have those people. Man, it's... I- it- it's important. Um, and you get in... Uh, I don't wanna get too ahead of myself, but you even get into some of the benefits. Um, uh, and maybe that's not- Yeah the right word. Um, but there, uh, when we allow that sadness to m- to move and be released, we do experience, um, some different things. And so I'll, I'll, I'll circle back to that. Um- Mm but back to, back to, uh, I don't think I finished my thought on Brene Brown. My mind's jumping all over the, uh, over the place. But with her work on the selective numbing, what she ultimately says is that when we numb one of those more difficult feelings, we actually numb the ability to experience joy, um- Yeah and gratitude, um, and all of the other beautiful and wonderful, um, li- uh, uh, you know, lighter sort of, um, emotions. Like, we can't just say, "I'm not, I don't wanna feel this and so I'm not going to." It actually impacts our ability to feel and express other emotions. And so I think that's really important, uh, just to, to remember. This is not something that we can just simply flip a switch on and off and those emotions then not, you know, exist. Um-

James 19:54

Yeah. We actually say something similar, Aaron, in our men's program, Awaken 360. I think it's in the heart module. And we, we use it like a dinner party. Like, you're avoiding pain, but you're also then missing out on joy and peace and, and all the, all the positive emotions, if you will, when, when we're running away from pain or grief in particular.

Aaron 20:16

Hm. Yeah, and just thinking about being at the table, too, right? And wanting to just experience- Mm-hmm like, you know, the fullness of the table. There's so much delight at the table. Um, togetherness, like, all these different things and yeah, all of that can really be, um, yeah, deeply impacted, um, when, when we don't allow ourselves to, to experience that. Um, that's a good- Yeah good analogy. Um- All right. Well, I'm gonna try to keep moving this along because I feel like I, I could talk about this for hours, like literally. I'm... My mind is just all over the place with this, uh, even with notes. So I keep thinking of other things. Um, so, um, here's what I think where I wanna go. Uh, there's a couple things. I wanna break down a little bit maybe about how to get curious about some of this, uh, for us. Um, I wanna talk about some of the, the... You know, of getting free so that we can connect more, and which gets into kinda what you were, uh, alluding to a little bit, like the relief, the being able to, um, to express that and the lighter, you know, that, that you felt, James. So I wanna talk a little bit about that as well. And then I wanna give us an opportunity to actually experience this sort of live. Like, um, you know, so if we're, if we're driving the car or, or whatever, you know, I mean, don't close your eyes, but I think you can still do this. But if you're on a walk, maybe not close your eyes too. I don't know. Maybe just don't close your eyes. I don't know. Um, but allow yourself to kinda go through this in a little

Questions That Invite Real Sadness

Aaron 21:48

bit as we do this sort of experience. And I know, James, you're gonna do this, um, a- as, as we go through it as well. So let me just say, before we get to there, um, some ways to, to begin to get curious around the sadness, uh, when, when you're, when you're feeling it. So again, I'm gonna start sort of at the gut and then work my way up, because anger kinda comes out the mouth. Um, so I'm gonna start when, when you f- when you might be feeling numb or wanting to shut down, I think the question to, to ask there is what sadness am I refusing to feel? Mm-hmm. So maybe there's a sadness- Yeah that is present, but you don't wanna feel it, and why is that? What is that sadness? Does it tap into something, um, from your story? What is it about that, uh, that you're refusing? So you gotta get curious around this. So again, if you're feeling numb or wanting to shut down, the question is, what sadness am I refusing to feel?

James 22:55

Yeah, and our colleague Blake, Aaron, actually shared with me, he's, uh, he's working on his licensure, uh, for ther- as a therapist, um, and he also coaches teens. But he says he had a mentor who said, when guys come into recovery saying they're feeling tired or, like you just said, numb or shut down, the question is often, where might you be feeling sad in that place? And as someone who's dealt with a lot of fatigue in my life, and I have come to recognize, 'cause I got... You know, I went to the doctor, so we're never saying don't go to a doctor, right? I went to the doctor, got sleep tested, all this stuff, but at the end of the day, what I've realized was so much of the fatigue I've carried, Aaron, is sadness that I've never given space to process. So I do think the numb, the shut down, the tired can be a good clue. Uh, we're not necessarily saying 100% of the time. Again, get your thyroid checked if you're tired all the time, whatever, right? But, like, a lot of the time there could be this element of not being able to enter into the sadness

Aaron 23:56

Yeah, the invitation might feel scary, you know, but-

James 24:00

Oh, yeah

Aaron 24:01

but gosh, if, if you will just go there, um, what that can lead to is so much healing and so much freedom. Um, and a- again, I'll get into the little bit of that i- in a minute. If you're feeling anxious, I th- the question is, what sadness am I blocking? So that's where it kind of rises up maybe into your chest and, and w- almost like l- like a pump, like you're trying to s- just shove it down, right? So what am I blocking? What's coming up and trying to rise up that I am afraid of? Um, you know, and I'm not sure sort of what's gonna happen if this continues to rise up, and so I'm just gonna try to, I'm j- gonna try to push it down. Um, what is that sadness that you're blocking? And if you're starting to get angry, again, getting curious about that, the question might be, what sadness am I trying not to feel right now? What am I trying not to feel? Um, and in a way, you, you can, with our words and our tone, like, you know, we can transform that sadness pretty quick, uh, into, or at least we think we can, um, the way we speak or use our words, uh, and how we say something. Man, I've been going through Proverbs, uh, at the beginning of July, um, 31 for 31. There's 31 proverbs, 31 days in July. Um, and, uh, and I've always known this and I've done this before, but man, I'm just blown away by how much Proverbs talks about our speech and our tongues and the language and the different things. And you think about some of the things we're talking about when we're sad or especially when we're angry, the things that might come out of our mouth or how they might come out of our mouth, man. Um, you know, it says, "Out of the same mouth comes cursing and blessing." Um, and you know, when we're angry, it can be a lot of cursing, both maybe in the actual words coming out, but also in the types of things that we say. Um, you know- Yeah heaping sort of, um, you know, curses. And not, I don't mean like, you know, s- incantation type, you know, curses, but like- just negative, negative speech, the heaviness. It's almost like placing weights on people because of the things that maybe- Mm-hmm are, are coming out of our mouth. So that type, that type o- of cursing, right? Instead of the, the blessing or the, the softer, the truth, you know, the, those types of things.

James 26:39

Yeah.

Aaron 26:39

Mm-hmm.

James 26:40

Well, and I'll say to any married man listening to this or any man who wants to be married, uh, my wife, and I bet this is true for many wives, Aaron, you can attest whether this is true or not, my wife responds a lot better to tenderness and even sadness- than to my angry speech or curses. Hundred percent. Right? Um, but, and I, I'm not saying that there's no wives or women out there who have sadness wounds, and they hear a man's sadness, and it, it triggers some stuff. Mm-hmm. But by and large, getting in touch with the tenderness is gonna be so beneficial in that space. But in addition to speech, Aaron, just to go back, again, I mentioned the jaw earlier. This can be a great... If, if you pause long enough to do a body scan and just notice, "What am I feeling? If I'm holding a lot of tension in my jaw, is there something underneath it?" And similarly, I work with a lot of guys, Aaron, who they have a, a, a... I don't know if they call it a pit in their chest or a just, it feels like their chest is super tight. And I can't help but think as you're talking, I'm like, "Man, what an opportunity to get curious about could there be sadness underneath that-

Aaron 27:48

Mm

James 27:48

uh, that's kind of being trapped there in the, in the chest." Mm.

Aaron 27:53

Yeah. It's almost like a s- like the seed sort of, you know? Like it's at the center of, like, whatever the thing is, you know? Uh, not that you're, you know... There's like a whole apple or s- something coming up. But, like, you know what I mean, just like this deep inside, like, there's things around it, you know, as well. It's not just, you know, sort of by itself. There, uh... So I kind of get that visual in some ways. You know, there's like contributors and different things that kind of come around that sadness as it's, you know, moving in, in our bodies. To feel it sort of in the chest or, you know, even when we're angry, you know, it, you know, we might feel a lump in our throat or pressure, you know, behind our eyes. It's almost like that clue like, "Oh man, I'm, I'm about to cry," or something like, "I'm losing it." And I can tell you that, um, there have been so many times, and I've been... I just able to identify this through some of my own personal work on, on, on my journey that, like, when I have gotten sometimes the most angry, it's because I was the most sad. Um, and- S- and learning, learning that, um, has been huge for me because I don't have to carry that anger, um, because that's really sadness coming out sideways. Uh, and when I'm, when I allowed myself to actually express that sadness through my eyes the way that our bodies have been made to express sadness in its entirety and in its fullness through tears, um, there is so much, uh, healing that comes through that, and the lightness of that. So listeners, just really encourage you to get curious around if you're feeling angry or anxious or numb with some of these different, uh, ways that, that sadness might be showing up. And the goal or... Yeah, sorry, go ahead, James.

James 29:52

Well, and, and just, you might already be about to say this, but you can't do this alone. Uh, that's something that came out of the interview with, with the guy, Kelly Flanagan, who, uh, you know, brings up this concept. But as Christians, we've got resources in Jesus. That doesn't mean we get to have a lone ranger faith. 'Cause so often, just like I experienced today, I needed a brother to be the, uh, to be Jesus with me, so to speak, right? But, but we have resources in Jesus where we c- when we can tap into the reality we're not actually ever alone. There's times where my tears can be released because I know God is truly with me, just like they can be released when I feel like I'm with someone who's really safe and wants to give space for this. So you can't...

Jesus Wept And So Can We

James 30:34

Get curious, but get curious with Jesus. Get curious, but get curious with a friend or safe spouse or someone.

Aaron 30:40

Yeah, 100%, man. And, and yeah, we were definitely gonna go there. I mean, Jesus, um, m- you know, several observations just through scripture, right, is that Jesus never bypasses emotion Um, feel like you always get exactly where he's at. Um- Mm you know, he, uh, he doesn't suppress grief. You know, we have examples of him, like weeping. We know that he- G-

James 31:09

guess what I happened to read today- What was that? Aaron, in my, in my quiet time?

Aaron 31:12

Jesus

James 31:12

wept. Jesus wept. That was what I was meditating on

Aaron 31:14

too. The shortest verse. Uh, but man- Yeah it's probably the, one of the most powerful actually, even though it's, you know, uh, such a sh- such a short verse. But the... Like, we forget, man, Jesus is fully God, he's fully human. He experienced all the same emotions that we experience, with loss, with lo- with, um... You know, I know he didn't, you know, uh, you know, have like a, a, like a, I don't know, significant other type thing, but I mean like the love. Like, he experienced love. He experienced loss. He experienced laughter. Any other Ls that we can throw in there? I'm just kind of alliterating now. Mm. It's like my pastor brain. Um- Nice but he's experiencing, he's, he experiences ex- same things that we experience. Um, you know, even tells us that that's, you know, part of, you know, part of the encouragement in, in our own journeys, is that Jesus has been tempted in every way that we are tempted. Um, and he was without sin. Um, and so the emotions, the, the thoughts, the things around all those th- other things, like he experienced that. He felt compassion. Um, you know, he experiences righteous anger, uh, in the temple, and how- Yeah they are, you know, making a mockery of, uh, his father's house. Mm-hmm. He cries out and- Which by

James 32:32

the way- Yeah is a great example of anger as a primary emotion. That was true righteous-

Aaron 32:37

Oh, my gosh

James 32:37

just anger in that

Aaron 32:39

moment. Totally. Totally. And I would say, too, and I always love talking about this briefly w- when that comes up, is that I think it's in Luke, uh, where we read something that c- sorta changes that context, that he braided a whip, uh- Yeah before he goes into the temple and starts throwing things, you know, tossing the tables and stuff. So, you know, uh, uh, braiding a whip's gonna take some time. So what was he doing as he's- Yes braiding that whip? He's probably talking, based on everything else that we see in scripture- I can almost guarantee he is praying to his father, just grieved, you know, crying probably, just man, just feeling, allowing himself to feel all these different emotions, um, as he's braiding that whip so that he's not res- that he's not reacting to a situation, which is what we do with our anger, but he's responding to a situation. He's responding, not reacting. And, and that little buffer, that little, you know, braiding that whip is sort of like the curiosity we're talking about today. Like, get curious about the sadness, right, before maybe it comes out as anger. Um, and then you're reacting instead of responding. So it has the ability to change or reframe the way that we speak, the way that we show up in some of these different places as we try to learn to regulate, um, and express our emotions, right? And there's a, you know, emotional maturity in that, um, which is, you know, such a... Uh, what I honestly think is probably the biggest part of the, um The recovery journey is growing in that emotional maturity, um, and being able to- Yes experience and express our emotions, what we're feeling, identify these things, um, so that it can inform us and be information for us, uh, instead of something that, um, that we maybe, you know, push down or don't, you know, give a, a second thought or curiosity to. Um, it can really change, you know, how, how, you know, we're, we're showing up. Um, and so yeah, Jesus, um, Jesus is the most healthy emotional person, or emotionally healthy person, who has ever lived. Um, and he's also the most emotionally available, um, just, you know, being there- Mm for, you know, t- countless people to come. I think of that scene from, um, The Chosen, uh, when, when the people are just lined up, uh, you know, to, to receive prayer and healing, and man, just probably all the different emotions and conversations that he had in that day, um, were just, I imagine, super taxing. But my point there is that he was present and available, and he still is today, for you, for me. Yeah.

James 35:39

Especially for the men listening, if, if you've grown up believing that men should not cry, that is an anti-biblical belief. And if you're a woman who grew up that way- Yeah that is an anti-biblical belief. Um, Jesus, uh, check out Psalm, sorry, Isaiah 53, the great messianic prophecy. It, it describes what we now know Jesus as, in verse three, to be "a man of suffering, a man of sorrows, well acquainted with pain or grief," depending on your translation. And so the most emotionally healthy man who's ever lived, God incarnate, was a man of sorrows, which speaks to what our world is truly like, sadly. But he also, in that, we can surmise he, a- and it says in scripture too, he's a man who lived for the joy set before him. He lived relationally. He was connected to God and to people, and so to his father and, and to his followers. And so this is not a journey, again, of, hey, be sad for the sake of sadness, or mourn as those with no hope. This is, we actually need to feel this type of stuff because it's actually gonna grow our relationship with Jesus. It's gonna make us more integrated- Mm internally. It's actually gonna make us a better friend. I, I remember hearing, uh, one of my favorite bands, Switchfoot, um, a- I think he was quoting Dan Allender, saying, "I don't trust anyone who doesn't walk with a limp." And listeners- Hmm if you're someone who walks with a limp, if you've got suffering in your life, if you have not had the charmed American dream that we all probably in our heart of hearts long for on some level, the safe, white picket fence kinda life, you're in good company. And it, it's, it's in the resolution, it's in the integration of our, us as persons, it's in the healing or the repair of our wounds that then we become these wounded healers, as Henri Nouwen says. And so- Yeah it's not for nothing, and it's actually to make us people of character. We want, we all want people of character. Mm-hmm. It often comes with a lot of, uh, it, it comes with being men or women of, of sorrows to some degree, I think, on this side of Heaven.

Aaron 37:52

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, that's so good. I'm, uh, it makes me think of, um, there's a recent, uh, song by Benjamin William Hastings called Saturday. Um, and in that he talks about, uh, you know, uh, in every good story there's a good amount of grief.

James 38:10

Hmm.

Aaron 38:11

Um, and so just to kinda hold that, um, that, y- you know, it's not unusual, it's not unnormal, and it's such a, again, I think an invitation to be able to embrace that and to, to sit with that, and what does that mean? Bring it to Jesus. Um, especially if, if there's been a, you know, if we haven't been able to express that or you're someone who hasn't cried in years or, you know, these types of things. Um, there

The Relief And Lightness After Crying

Aaron 38:38

is so much healing that comes from, uh, expressing and releasing our sadness. In fact, um, Dr. Flanagan talks about the relief. He says that no matter, no matter what, he says, um, your, even if it's sobbing crying, it won't last more than 90 seconds And I don't know all the science behind that, and I'm like, that sounds r- like, you know, pretty amazing. But like the, not that you won't maybe kinda on and off cry, but like in one just, ugh, I'm getting it all out, good cry, it won't last more than 90 seconds. Um-

James 39:19

In other words, it's like the, even the pain that has been held there for decades, the, the unbearable fear of, of facing it, actually it, it almost can crescendo, it can peak, it can be like a wave breaking in 90 seconds. Now, obviously we can cry for hours and things like that, and that's not to dismiss that. But, but the things that we're running from, the things that w- we're so, like, u- unsure... Uh, frankly, it's not even just that we don't wanna handle the pain, we just don't even know how sometimes. I, I cry out to the Lord like, "Lord, I don't know how to navigate this pain." But e- even those types of pains that we have no idea how to navigate can crescendo and, and be kind of felt through in a, in 90 seconds, is what he, he and other therapists I've heard, licensed therapists talk about

Aaron 40:06

Yeah. And so there's relief. There's also deeper relief. There's the, um, I think what James was talking about earlier too, and just his r- you know, fresh experience from today. Um, you know, there's a, there's a lighter, like a lightness. Yes. There's, um, there's more joy, energy, there's passion, there's creativity, there's other things. There's a renewal that happens when we allow ourselves to release and experience that sadness. And it also, and, and connection as well. We can be real with ourselves and others in ways that maybe we haven't been before, and maybe that's played into part of your addiction or part of your recovery- Hmm journey, is not feeling like you've been able to be real with others and yourself. Mm-hmm. And through this vulnerability of being able to express sadness, you can be real with, uh, with others and yourself. And then there's also freedom. So we can also stop reacting and start relating. Um, or as I was talking about with the, with the experience of Jesus in the temple, like responding instead of reacting in, in different situations. Um, if we're, if we have a little bit more of a handle on what, why we feel that way, what's going on inside of us. Again, such an important question. What is going on inside of me right now? If you can stop and ask that question in the midst of, you know, feeling deep sadness, even if it's in the beginning, or anger, like just, man, what a reframe. Uh, and what curiosity can actually lead you into a different, um, a different place i- in your, in your responding. So let's give this a try, okay? Um, I wanna invite, uh, you, listener, uh, and James, um, we're gonna go through just a series of

A Guided Practice For The Week

Aaron 42:03

sorta different, different questions, um, maybe through just a recent experience. So here's what I want you to do If you're not doing something and you can close your eyes, I do find that to be helpful. But if, if you're driving or you're walking and just, you know, need your eyes right now, keep your eyes open. James, you can close your eyes. Um, but I want you to think of something that has irritated you this last week. Irritated probably brings up some feelings of anger, um, and that's why we're, we're starting there. So I want you to think of something that's irritated you this week. I don't want you to analyze it. I just want you to notice it Okay, now where might you feel that in your body? And now ask yourself, in, in that instance, what mattered to you? What mattered to me? What feels lost? And if I wasn't allowed to be angry What sadness would finally have a chance to speak? And I wanna encourage you to not fix it. Don't explain it. Just let it be there Because sometimes healing begins not when we finally have the right answer But when we finally give ourselves permission to feel the right emotion, the feeling beneath the feeling All right, let's take a deep breath and come out of that James, any, any feedback what that was like for you? You don't have to get into specifics of what you identified or anything like that, but

James 45:02

And that was good. Um, I immediately was able to get in touch with anger or tension in my jaw. And I, I'll actually, I'll share my example 'cause it's kind of benign- Sure, sure but it's, it's gonna be relatable to some people. I, I watched the US team lose last night in the World Cup. I'm sure that was hard for you, too. Yeah. You're a way bigger soccer fan than I am. But I was in the midst, Aaron, of feeling stuck and discouraged with other things in life, and I was actually wanting it to be a place of kind of hope being fulfilled, like this team had so much promise. And on the- Mm-hmm the counterpoint was it felt, like, discouraging. It felt disappointing. It felt, uh, and I'm gonna use the word despair, but I mean at, like, a level one out of 10. But it was still there. It was still this like, oh, something that we had so much hope for is... And, and as we went through that, I noticed the anger or the tension in my jaw left, almost like it was dropping down or going up or something. It was shifting a little bit. So I don't know, kind of a funny example, and, uh, it's sad sometimes in my own estimation how, how much sports can impact many emotions. Uh, you know. Uh, but nonetheless, like, if I were to just deny that and say, "Yeah, no, I, I didn't really care," like I'm missing an opportunity to be met by love and care in that place. And, um, so anyway, it was- Mm it was really meaningful, actually.

Aaron 46:28

Yeah. No, that's great, man. I think another thing we can do in those moments, and even if you, you know, a listener plays this back or, you know, continue to do something like that maybe in coaching or something,

You Need Jesus And Safe People

Aaron 46:39

just to remember that it's not just you sitting there thinking these things and trying to get in touch with that emotion. Jesus is there with you, too. He will never leave us or forsake us. There isn't a moment that we go through in life where he is not present. It's easy for us to think he's not present or to maybe, "I don't feel his presence, therefore he's not present."

James 47:03

Yeah.

Aaron 47:04

Um, and we can rationalize things and, and, you know, but he is, God is everywhere at all times, and he's outside of space and time. And even more so, Jesus longs to be with us. He wants us to feel l- like, like he's right there with us. Um, and I think, you know, at times he's grieved, like when we feel like he's not. Um, so just an encouragement, as you do this work, you are not alone. Um, you, you have Jesus, and hopefully you have community around you. If not, I cannot encourage you enough to find some community. Um, I actually wrote an email about that, about how sometimes we, we have to be the ones maybe to start that community. Um, but we just go looking for it like a parking space, you know, "Oh, this one's not gonna fit, you know, I'm not gonna fit in there." So just an encouragement that if you need community, search for it And what ways might God be asking you to also form that community as well? All right, as we wrap up, just wanna highlight a couple retreats that we have coming up in the fall. We have our Awaken Retreat for Men, which is happening October 9th through 11th in Middleburg, Virginia. And if you're listening to this live, the early bird sign-up goes through, I believe, around July 25th. So you still have some time to grab your spot for a reduced rate, and it is limited to the first 30 men who sign up. So grab that spot before they're gone. And additionally, we have the Sacred by Design Retreat for Women, Saturday, October 17th, in Boiling Springs, Pennsylvania. And for more details, you can click the link in the show notes or visit our website at regenerationministries.org. All right, final words, James. Mm-hmm. What would you want to leave with our listener today?

James 49:05

Really just highlighting something you said earlier, that Jesus really wants our honest, our real thoughts. I mean, again, Job, Book of Job, you see this. Job is vindicated, and his friends are not. His friends, his pious friends who are saying, "Job, you've reaped what you sowed. This is your fault 'cause of your sin," they were wrong, and Job was right to lament unto the Lord. He was totally vindicated. Obviously, his perspective was broadened, so it's not that God didn't do anything as he encountered him. But his, his lament was, was invited, and same with the Psalms. We just see... Get into the Psalms, guys. If you're dealing with sexual recovery or betrayal trauma or even parenting a, a, a, a lost child, like, get into the Psalms. Get into the grief and the joy and the highs and the lows, um, because again, God wants to encounter us as, as we really are, not as our masks would have us present. So maybe I can just share this C.S. Lewis quote that I'm gonna be sharing tonight as we kick off the spirit module of Awaken. He has this kind of pre-prayer prayer where he says, "May it be the real I who speaks." In other words, may I not have masks on, like the authentic me, the honest me. "And may it be the real Thou that I speak to." May it be a, a, a true picture of God, not kinda my own fiction. And so, uh, yeah, just wanna encourage you listeners to that end. May it be the real you who speaks, and may it be the real God that you're speaking to.

Aaron 50:31

Mm. Audience of one.

Retreats Final Charge And Prayer

Aaron 50:35

And I think I would add, you know, this week, don't try to eliminate your anger. Listen to it. Mm. Let it introduce you to your sadness. Let your sadness reveal what your heart longs for And then I'd say invite Jesus into that place before you ask anyone else to fix it James, will you pray us out?

James 51:04

Absolutely. Oh, Jesus, I'm just so grateful for who you are and that you really are a resource. Uh, you are life itself, and you're the one who wants to be with us in the places where we've experienced death or grief, loss or sadness. And so I just pray you'd bless our listeners to encounter you in those real authentic places of their heart. And just like I experienced, uh, maybe an hour ago now, would they get a vision of you being with them, a real sense that you're with them in the sadness. Provide them community. If they're stuck, lead them to inter- to seek you, for you to provide community, God, and provide people who are really safe for this type of, um, this type of real work. And, and I just pray especially for the Americans listening, I'm just thinking about how our culture's so antithetical to this, Lord. And so would you just give us the grace, uh, maybe Westerners, maybe everyone in the world, I don't know. But God, would you give our listeners and us the grace to go to these places, to be men and women of sorrows and men and women of the, the joy of the Lord, which I think, again, go together. So bless our listeners to know you as you really are in the fullness of sorrow and joy. Pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.