Becoming Whole
Relationships and sexuality are areas of life that can be beautiful or confusing, life-giving, or painful. Becoming Whole is a conversational podcast for men, women, and families seeking to draw nearer to Jesus as they navigate topics like sexual integrity, relational healing, spiritual health, and so much more.
Becoming Whole
A Retreat Can Change Your Recovery Trajectory
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If you’ve ever wondered why your recovery feels slow even when you’re doing “all the right things,” this conversation names a missing piece that can change your trajectory: retreat. We talk about why getting away for a concentrated weekend is not escapism, but a powerful and practical recovery tool that helps you go deeper than weekly therapy, coaching, or group can often reach on their own. When time expands and distractions shrink, the real story under the behavior has room to surface and heal.
We unpack what actually makes retreats effective for sexual recovery and Christian discipleship: the momentum of a whole group pursuing honesty together, the way vulnerability becomes contagious, and the built-in buffer that keeps you from doing hard work and then immediately numbing out. You’ll hear personal stories of breakthrough moments, including how healing old wounds can change temptation patterns and move you from managing sobriety to living with greater freedom.
We also talk about the barriers that keep people away: shame, cost, scheduling, and the fear of admitting you need help. Then we explore why beauty and kindness matter in a retreat setting, how being cared for can challenge the lie that you are unworthy, and why Scripture shows Jesus repeatedly inviting his friends to come away with him to rest and reset. If you feel even a mustard seed of desire for more wholeness, you’re not alone, and you’re not behind.
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Awaken Men's Retreat | October 9th -11th
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Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole:
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
Why Retreat Belongs In Recovery
Josh GlaserThere's a, there's a category of recovery that I don't think we've... Actually, I'm pretty sure we've not talked much about on the Becoming Whole podcast, but we're gonna talk about it today. It's an area that we think is gonna supercharge your recovery and be a, a incredible help to you in the process. So joining me in the studio today, not in the studio, what am I saying? We're online today, Greg Ruland, who's one of our church care liaisons and, uh, helps with our men's group here and Men of Substance here, and our family care liaison, Blake Brinkman. Uh, welcome guys. Glad that you're here. Uh, so the question we're s- we're gonna start with, uh, 'cause we're gonna talk about retreat today and the importance of retreat. Not run away, run away retreat from the difficulties, but, but retreat, taking a retreat as a part of your recovery journey. So first question, and I want you to give a short answer, both of you guys. Retreat, is it necessary or optional?
Greg RuhlandOoh, I'll go first. I'd say necessary, um, both for the recovery journey and then, um, not just for the recovery journey, but as a spiritual discipline to continue on your life afterward
Josh GlaserOkay. Blake, necessary or optional?
Blake BrinkmanI'll, I'll give kind of a funsy answer. I'll go necessary optional, and what I mean by that is I think necessary, I heard this quote that essentially said something to the degree of, "If you don't want the best recovery or the best healthy journey, you don't have to do it by, by a long shot." And I was like, "Huh, that's, that's convicting and inspiring in ways."
Josh GlaserRight. Well, what I, well actually, okay, let me just start there. What I appreciate about that, and I think it's an important part of any person's recovery, is really to ask the question. It's kind of like that scene from, if you've seen the movie The Untouchables, where Sean Connery is a, is a beat cop, and he's talking to Eliot Ness about whether or not they can really take down Al Capone, and he asks this question. He says, "What are you prepared to do?" And he asks it at the beginning when they're even beginning to entertain the idea of how far they're gonna go or what's gonna be required, and then Sean Connery asks it on his deathbed as he's been riddled with bullets, and he's looking at Eliot Ness, Sean, or, uh, Kevin Costner's character, and he says, he asks him again, "What are you prepared to do? Are you prepared to see this through?" And I think for so many of us in our recovery journeys, we kind of approach it with a, a minimalist perspective, like, "What's the least I have to do to get over this?" Which ends up just dragging this process out and maybe even making it so you never really gain the kind of freedom that you want and the joy you want. So, all right. I would agree. I think that retreat is a necessary part of recovery. Greg, I'm intrigued. We're gonna press in a little bit why is it a necessary part of the Christian journey? But let's, let's just start with in recovery, for the men and women listening who are in recovery from their own unwanted sexual behaviors, or they've, they've been wounded by other's sexual behaviors, why is it necessary? Why not just see your coach or your therapist? Why not even just attend your, your weekly group? You got community in that space. Why is a retreat necessary?
Time And Momentum You Cannot Fake
Josh GlaserGreg, why don't you start?
Greg RuhlandUm, well, I actually like what Blake shared earlier. Um, um, as we were talking offline, just the amount of time. Like, so often we get into these spaces with our coaches or our group, and we get limited by time. And so to have a whole weekend where you can go a little further and a little deeper, also probably a little faster, there's something there, um, that I think is super helpful. and I think some of that is just, um, when you're doing all those things with, uh, the same group of guys and you've all set up, set apart the time, and you're all going for it, it seems like there is a momentum that you gain not just, uh, internally yourself, but you're borrowing that momentum from other people as well, which is some of why you're able to go a little further and a little deeper than I think, um, just either in your coaching or in your, in your normal weekly group setting
Josh GlaserTell me, tell me more about that. So, so you're with this group of, this cohort of people on this retreat, and you're all after some of the same objectives, maybe different struggles a little bit, but there's some similar objective to being there, and there's momentum you get 'cause you're, you're able to focus on, on what's happening there. What do you mean by borrowing momentum from other people? What does that look like? What does that mean?
Greg RuhlandOh man, I think there's a space where vulnerability becomes, uh, contagious, and where when somebody kind of leads you s- y- you into that space, you're like, "Yeah, me too. That's me."
Josh GlaserYeah
Greg RuhlandUm, and, um, particularly I think as we think about this type of retreat where we're really looking at what's underneath, um, our behaviors, like where are our wounds, um, and it- we so often minimize the pain that we've been through, and we, we like to gloss over it. We like to move on. We like to survive. Um, and so this type of retreat context, particularly for this topic, I think is helpful, because we're around other men and, uh, you know, a team of trusted people kind of curating the space, uh, to help us actually name our wounds, name our pain, not gl- gloss over it, and, uh, actually push a little bit further in. Uh, so I think that's some of the momentum that you actually get, uh, this type of retreat setting, which, uh, like, is the same type of momentum you hopefully are getting your community. it's just here you're getting it with a different level of intensity because, uh, there's more time. There's often deeper vulnerability. and you often might be able to look at things from s- several different perspectives over the course of a weekend.
Josh GlaserYeah. Nice
Greg RuhlandSo you kind of wrap yourself around it a little bit more.
Josh GlaserYeah. Blake, why is it necessary optional to go on retreat if you're in recovery?
Vulnerability Spreads And Wounds Surface
Blake BrinkmanI think that is a part of the necessary optional piece of if you want to get the absolute utmost out of your recovery, out of your healing journey, there's such a advantage. I don't have any real stats on this, but when I think of my own journey, my own going on retreats and friends who've gone on retreats, it feels like it, it might be worth, you know, somewhere in the three to five-year range of if I were to just with the process and keep doing all the other things, like there's just such a magnitude of healthy healing work that gets done on a retreat. And I think a huge part for me in that is the lack of distraction, right? Of when we have the best, you know, coaching or counseling sessions or whatever it is, I'm immediately feeling all this intensity and at least for me, I have a tendency to wanna numb and distract immediately afterwards like, "Ooh, that was, that was a lot. That was really big. I need something to relax me," you know, sedate me in a way. Whereas retreat, we just stay in it for such a long time, but we stay in it in a very uh, conducive place with other men that are doing the same thing. That we-- you know, there is a we're in this together approach that allows the, work to just sit in with us and allows us to sit in it with the Lord and really give that, amount of time and space that is needed to let a lot of these things take their root.
Josh GlaserYeah. Yeah. I love that. All right. I gotta check this with you 'cause I, I almost, like, did a double-take. Did you say that your, your estimation as a, as a therapist and as somebody who's been in this field, you think that going on retreat, it, like, will save you, did you say three to five years of just, if it's just weekly meetings with people?
Blake BrinkmanI, I did. I, that, that math could be way off, but l- even if it was a year, right? How, how valuable is that? And that's where some of the, you know... I, I can feel this myself, but now experiencing it and hearing clients talk about it like, "Man, giving a whole weekend away, you know, that's a lot." And it's like, sure, I also don't like giving up a year, you know? And so just the amount of time it actually gives you could be, know, paramount, could be immensely beautiful. I-- When I think of my own journey, I can think of some great sessions here and there of, wow, that was eye-opener, or something was said that really spoke to me, changed
Josh GlaserYeah, right
Blake Brinkmanmajority of my memories go back to retreats and some of those moments that happened there
Josh GlaserAll right, I'm gonna ask you guys, uh, each a little, in a little bit about your personal experience. But I w- I wanna answer the question, too, why I think that retreat is necessary. Uh, in addition to what you guys said, the other thing, I think, there's something about the, the flow. Because you go on retreat and, you know, Greg, you talked about y- you, you s- you stay in the space. You both talked about this. You don't go and just medicate or distract yourself afterwards. But a good retreat also has this kind of up and it has a flow to it, so you enter into some of the deeper waters, uh, and then you have some fun. You rest, you eat with the same people that you were just in that space with. And I think there's... You know, I can think about the recovery groups I was in for years, and I didn't get to know people in the same way that I did on retreat. And even if I wasn't looking to build, you know, a whole new network of friends, but I went, I went away on retreat with people, there was still something really healing about recognizing, like, oh, you guys are people like I am, and let's go deep, and then let's come out and just laugh and eat. The other thing that I think was really in, in a similar vein, I heard recently that, that change... Like, w- we're such a, a kind of a heads on a stick culture, like, as James K.A. Smith talks about it. Like, we think that the way that we're changed is by just taking in good information, and a good retreat will give you good information. But what I understand now is that you're actually changed more by reflecting on the information that you've received. And so to go from a good teaching to a good processing time to potentially a good healing time or a good journaling time or a good walk by the river time, where you're just thinking about what's happened. Not to mention, in a Christian retreat, there's also opportunity to engage with the Lord, to, to be able to kind of take some of the things you've heard or experienced and to have Him confirm it, uh, through you know, I don't know, something you, you experience or hear from the Holy Spirit as you're walking or something you see in nature or, um... So, so that whole kind of condensed experience becomes this multifaceted kind of terrain all, all condensed into this one space. It's not just like a, "Yeah, we sat and studied all weekend, you know, and it was all lecture," but it's this, there's terrain to it, there's topography to it all condensed into this one space, which I think is really... I don't know. It, it adds some level of making the h- head stuff go to the heart in a different way, and you become embodied in a different way. So that's my, my, uh, conceptual answer to that question. Okay. So, uh,
Greg RuhlandIt was a great answer, by the
Josh Glaserth- thank you very much. Uh, so get personal here for a minute. What, like, you know, and, and we don't have time to get into, into too much, but, uh, what's your experience been with retreat for you in your recovery? What, when, if you, if this has been, if this is both
Why A Weekend Can Save Years
Josh Glaseron a professional and a personal level something you're like, "Yeah, this is necessary," what... Give us a memory of retreat
Greg RuhlandYeah, I'll kick us off. Um, I have one that really comes to mind. I can't remember if it was a five-day retreat or a four-d- day retreat, it was pretty intense. it, and it was designed for men who had experienced sexual harm in their childhood. Um, and I was, I would, I was sober at that point. Like, I had a, actually had several years of sobriety underneath my belt. Um, actually more than several. Um, but God was touching on some of the wounds underneath, and like, I think going to the retreat, I'm like, "Do I need this? Is this really what God, you know, is it worth all this time?" Um, and it, it was. I think, like, reflecting on my takeaway, I would say coming out of the retreat, because of how I met God in some of those places of harm and wounding, um, you know, within a couple months after the retreat, like, "Oh, my sobriety is actually different. There's actually more than sobriety now." There is a place where, as I had gotten free from pornography and masturbation, like, I had actually repressed parts of my sexuality, and that's some of how, um, had stayed sober. But as I opened up some of these old wounds, realized, oh man, l- lust just was not hitting me the same way post-retreat. You know, as I let the, um, as I myself a little space post-retreat to kinda take it in, it settle, like, see what fruit it actually is producing in my life. And I, I remember this, uh, very vivid memory where I was watching TV, like, two months later, and all of a sudden I have like a, uh, I'm like, "Oh, that, that commercial right there, that would've used to produce lust in me, or the temptation to lust." And I would've had to manage it, and I was managing it, but it would've taken effort. It was a whole deal, right? And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, it didn't take any effort there. There's, there's something in me happening now." Um, so I think that, like, as I think about why I'm excited about this coming retreat that we're running is, like, have hope for every guy, no matter where they're at in their journey. Like, um, know, maybe they're still in a little bit of an addiction cycle where, like, they're not quite sober yet. Uh, maybe they've had sobriety for a decade, but yet they sense- Oh man, there is, there's more. There's more. Um, I think I've got that excitement, uh, over the retreat space because, uh, like again, like what you were saying, like the versatility and the depth of the retreat space, and then even what Blake was saying about, you, like there's just a fruit that comes at a different speed post-retreat, um, when, when you begin to experience God in the presence of God in some of, and brothers in, in some of our deepest wounds that we've been carrying around.
Josh GlaserSo good. Blake, what about you?
Blake BrinkmanYeah, man, it's, it, it's a hard one to answer in a good way if there's just so many to pick from. I think comes to mind is just kind of that settling in, kind of what you were talking about, Josh, of there's a pace, there's a flow to it, of I can feel my nervous system like, you know, I, I almost need half a day at least before I really start to take a deep breath, settle
Josh Glaserja
Blake Brinkmangonna be with these guys all, all weekend, and y- you know, we get to start sharing, building that vulnerability, building that trust. And then when I think of that in some of my past retreats, I, th- there's, there's a depth you can get to that is really hard to get to, know, one-on-one, and it's, you're not only getting there one-on-one, but you're getting there with an entire group that's doing the same thing that I think is really powerful. We did a, an exercise, I won't explain it all, but basically you're drawing certain pictures of your story, I remember one of my pictures was just dark black marker just colored the whole thing in of just such deep shame. I'd told maybe two of my closest friends and my wife about it, and that I did not have any desire to talk about it really. And yet settling into a retreat, having this amount of time to develop safety, vulnerability, stick with it, have the Lord there, it allowed me to share that in a fresh and healing way and get to have brothers and the Lord speak into it was a healing moment I, I won't forget. Like I said, that's, that's a moment I run back to
Josh GlaserYeah. Well, you bring up another reason there, Blake, to why retreat is a necessary. Like, it's not just that we, you know, I leave my counseling office or my support group, and now I'm, I wanna be distracted. There's also the... It's, retreat provides buffer around all these things. So even if it's, you know, hey, what comes next is lunch. I'm at lunch, and I've got, you know, like, you know, my face is red 'cause I've been crying, but I'm with other guys who get it. You know, I'm... We sit down together. It's not, and it's not like I'm going back to my, from my virtual coaching session, going back to, you know, work at a, you know or, uh, or even, or even for some people, going home, you know, to, to talk to my wife where there's difficulty or have to be with my kids or... So there is a buffer of kind of a safety of, of being in that community. Um, for me, and I've talked about this
Retreat Memories That Mark You
Josh Glasera lot, and I, uh, I mean, it's easy for me to answer the question, you know, like, what, what, you know, name a special retreat. Um, the, the retreat that I went on to, uh, with years ago, it was 30 years ago, and, and I wasn't gonna go. I was, it was, it was across the country. It was at a beautiful retreat center. It cost more than I, I could afford. I was a single guy working my first job, and all I did was say, "Lord, if you want me to go..." The guy that, a guy here at Regeneration was like, "You should go on this retreat." And I was like, "Okay." You know, like I... There's a lot of obstacles in my way, but I just said, "Lord, if you want me there, like, would you make a way?" And I remember feeling like this door after door after door opened for me to get there, even to the point, so I think I got the scholarship to be there, and somehow I ended up landing a room by myself, which, you know, I didn't pay for that, but I, I loved, and it was this beautiful place, uh, beautiful, great food. Uh, and I had two, I can, I can think of three very unique encounters with the Lord on that trip that just blew me away, uh, you know, connecting things I knew in my head to my heart. I had one encounter with the Lord on that retreat where I, I literally could not stop laughing. I mean, I just... And I wasn't... I was just so full of joy. It was the last morning of the retreat, and I just, I couldn't, I couldn't. We were singing. I couldn't sing 'cause I was just so moved with joy. And, um- Yeah, I mean, I've never, never reproduced those moments with the Lord I had on that retreat, but it was just so spectacular and so special to me. Uh, and if nothing else, I left that retreat, and this has never waned. I mean, it's... I, I don't feel it the way I did on that retreat all the time, but I remember just being struck with in... And I was, I was acting out. I was still actively in... I was in recovery, but I was still actively acting out when on this retreat. But I knew that God's grace was for me, and He loved me. And, uh, and it wasn't in spite of, it was right in the middle of, 'cause this was why I was on this retreat. And it was, it was marvelous. It was marvelous. Um, and that, that brings me to this. So Greg, you've mentioned a couple times in this, you've mentioned, you know, this retreat, which we haven't actually said, so you're, you're kind of showing people our hand. But
Why We Avoid Retreats
Josh Glaserr- you guys, the, the reason... So listeners, the reason we're doing this podcast, the w- what prompted this podcast was it occurred to us that we've never really talked about the value of retreat, and Regeneration for the last few years has been running annual retreats for men and for women because we believe they are so valuable. And so, uh, we'll have links to both retreats that are coming up this fall, f- one for men October 9th through 11th, and one for women on just a s- just a Saturday retreat, October 17th. Uh, we'll have links to those in the show notes. If you're listening and you're intrigued, please check it out. And if you look and you go, "Man, the, you know, the, the, the, the time, uh, is, it's too much," or, "The cost is too much," do what I did and just ask the Lord if He, "Do You want me there? And if You want me there, would You make a way?" Uh, we want you there. We, we are excited about these retreats for multiple reasons. So, um, let me ask this question, you guys. Um, we- maybe we should've started out with this, but I'll ask it now. Why, why do people not go? Let's l- a- aside from the... Well, no, I'll just leave it. Like, why, why do people not go and, and, and, um, are the, are the reasons good? And I'm not, I, I'm not trying to point bl- listeners, that's an unfair question. So I get it. But, uh, so w- we know that there are legitimate reasons, scheduling conflicts, uh, uh, family obligations, things like that, you know, and if those are real for you, we'd, you know, obviously take those into consideration. But, um, but what are... Maybe, maybe a simpler question or more straightforward, like what are reasons people give that aren't good reasons or that maybe there's a different way to look at the reasons that most people may not think of?
Greg RuhlandWell, I can just, uh, put myself in my
Josh GlaserYeah, fair enough. Thank you
Greg Ruhlandinstead of the listener's shoes,
Josh GlaserMaybe
Greg Ruhlandit may
Josh Glaserthat's a, that's more fair, yeah. Why, why would you... Yeah. So instead of... Okay. Uh, let's edit. No, it's not good. Just jump in
Greg Ruhlandback, uh, back when I went to this particular retreat where it was a retreat focused on sexual harm, um, I think shame. I'm like, I, I didn't, I didn't wanna... It felt like I was admitting I was a bigger, like a bigger mess than I was willing to let myself admit.
Blake BrinkmanMm-hmm.
Greg RuhlandUh, but now these days I don't have that problem. Like, so what? Um, I guess that's good news for me. yeah, there was something about the shame of, uh... I wish it was more normalized. Like You know, like, I think we're ta- uh, like, I think we function like sexuality, it should just flow, and it should just be, and we don't need formative spaces,
Josh GlaserRight
Greg Ruhlanduh, to shape and mold it. Um, and so there's that to get over, which then, you know, that, that whole, like admitting. Uh, but I don't... I, I think if our culture were a little better at c- you know, just normalizing the spaces we actually need, um, that wouldn't be such a big hindrance. And then there's always the practical time and money, know, like... Uh, but I was desperate. That's, that's what got, got me, is I knew there was, uh... Even though I was sober, like I knew, uh, the spirit of God was putting his finger on something in my heart, and I didn't really know what it was, and I didn't really know what the journey before me was, um, 'cause it was uncharted territory. Um, but I just knew. And so it was... I-In the end, it was the s- the drawing of the Spirit brought me there. Uh, and it w- and then the willingness to kinda hop over those hurdles, both practically, the time and money, and then the shame hurdle in my mind
Josh GlaserYeah. All right, Blake, I'm gonna ask you, but I, I wanna just jump in there with a little bit of response. One, I so appreciate your naming the, the shame that we can feel about going away on retreat addressing sexual stuff. With that, there is the obvious questions of like, "Well, what do I say to people?" Like, "Hey, you wanna come fishing this weekend?" "No, I'm going away on a men's retreat," you know? Like, um, the... I remember for me, like, you know, I, I could say, "Well, I'm going on a men's retreat," or, "I'm going on a men's... to a men's group," and people are like, "Oh, with your church?" Like, well, not exactly. It's... So there is, there is some of those spaces to navigate, which can be difficult. If either, either of you have ideas about that, you know, might throw that in, but, um, but I appreciate that. I think that's, that's real, and it is one of those things, like, once you, once you show up on, on the grounds, uh, maybe this is another reason why, why retreat is so valuable because now suddenly you're in the space. Everybody that's there had to walk through something similar to get there and, uh, and, you know, you can find, you know, "Oh, these are my people." Um, the second thing that strikes me when you talk about kind of the Spirit drawing you, I would invite our listeners to, you know, ask... I think it's another reason to ask the Lord. Like, if you read through the, the Gospels, there, there are these pointed moments where Jesus is intentionally asking, inviting his disciples to come away with him. Um, this is a... This isn't just a, a rhythm that we're recommending. This is a rhythm that Jesus was introducing into the life of discipleship with his 12 closest friends. We've been working through a, a, a, um, the Book of Mark at, at my church, and it's kind of amazing. Like, Jesus keeps getting interrupted, but he keeps inviting his disciples away. He's really trying hard to get away with them to the point where I think it's in Mark 7 or 8 he goes way outside of, of Jewish territory to try to be alone with them, and even there they're interrupted. But, but it's that important to Jesus. Come away. He's trying to get them away. Even after their ministry success, he's trying to get them a- to come away with him. So what is it about retreat that Jesus saw
Jesus Modelled Coming Away To Rest
Josh Glaseras a necessary c- component to go deeper with his disciples? And in what way might that be something that is a part of the motivator for, uh, for men and women to go on our retreats this, this year? So, um, something worth praying about for sure. Blake, what about you? What, what are some objections that you had or that you've heard that-
Blake BrinkmanI, I think kind of playing off of that, and it's funny we didn't even set it up this way with the initial question, but I think I would circle back to that of, myself included, we often just have a misunderstanding of how valuable it is, right? And I think of Jesus there. doesn't ask us to do anything that's not worthwhile or, know, pointless or just, "Meh, well, we should get away," right? Like, there's deep significance to that, of retreat, rest, lack of distraction, being together, all of those things. And that's where, to the first question, I think about like, "Well, I, I'd have to take off work and, you know, money and et cetera," you know? And i- if there was a physical surgery we needed for some deep quality of life, and it was like, "Yeah, doctor says, you know, you're gonna have to take four days off. It's gonna cost some insurance money, but, you know, I think it's pretty necessary." It'd be like, "Yeah, uh, just tell me where to sign. I'll, I'll do it," you know? And I think we miss that piece of this could change the next decade of my life, even longer, obviously, of just how necessary an experience like this is for our journey. And so the, the ex- the obsta- obstacles are fair, they're warranted, they make sense, and I think the value we're getting is so far beyond them, and I think that's the part we often miss when we're doing that calculus.
Josh GlaserYeah. I think that's so important. So important. I think that... And, and I love the comparison to, to a doctor. I think there's something culturally for us where people kind of, even though they might push against what a doctor's orders are, like, we kind of all get collectively like, Oh, yeah, you gotta take care of your health. Right, right, right." Um, for some reason, our spiritual health, our sexual health, our relational health, those things become a little bit more like, you know, shameful. I mean, or, or unspoken at least. Um, and I, I do think that comes back to what you were saying earlier about, like, well, how, how long do you wanna keep going the way that you've been going? Do, do you want something better? Does, does Jesus have something better He's inviting you to? I mean, Greg, even your story, like, you know, you're, you're functionally doing fine, but you're, you had a sense that God wanted to go deeper. And I, I can resonate with that a lot. Like, that was where I was when I went on this retreat. I was... Uh, not that I was sober, but I just, I knew that I'd made so much progress, but I just had this sense, "God, I think He... There's something deeper going on. And I, I don't know what it is. I don't have to get after it. But I, I, I wanna try." Um, and man, am I glad I did. Man, am I glad I did
Greg RuhlandYeah. I mean, honestly, like now that you say that, it just hits me that it was actually a, a really difficult space to be in. 'Cause even though I was sober, it's like the, the pain that it was time to engage with went deeper. Like, so it actually drew me into greater vulnerability than some of the spaces at the front end of my journey. Uh, so it actually felt like harder work
Josh GlaserYeah. Yeah. Yeah
Blake BrinkmanAnd another thing that comes to mind for me too is, uh, just a level of trust involved, right? Like, I don't know if I would've gone on some of these retreats without some of my friends who went before me and said, "I think you need this, and I think this will be really valuable." And so whether it's, you know, one of us, a coach, or you've just listened to Josh over the years, we're not exactly salesmen, you know? Uh, we, we're, we're not, uh, too savvy at that world, but we, we believe in this, and there, there's a true trust behind these words of, "We think it'll be really extremely valuable for you." And so, know, whatever the obstacle is, is it, is it worth it to do something that could be truly so healing for you and your walk and journey?
Josh GlaserYeah. Yeah, you might even compare, like, what's, what's the discomfort in, in your walk right now? You know, I'm acting out, and that's uncomfortable every time I do. Or it's a level of discomfort around kind of how the l- the lack of depth or something, and the solidity or the, or the topic in my life that I just always try to skirt around. Do I wanna continue to live with that or, or could I push through some discomfort on the front end, find my way in this retreat, and see what God might unfold? I, I would say, like, one prescription I'd write for anybody who's going on a retreat is to go with a level of expectancy. Not... It's not entitlement. It's not demanding. It's just kind of an open heart to say, "Lord, what would you do?" Like, the r- the retreat I was describing a little bit ago, I d- I didn't really even know what to anticipate. I'd never been on this retreat before. I didn't know anybody. And, um, but I just... I was like, "Lord, I, I'm just open, hands open to you." All right, I got a couple other questions I wanna, I wanna get to before we wrap up. One is, um, can either of you or both of you talk about, like, the value of retreat in a nice place, beautiful place? Um, and I ask that specifically because
Beauty Kindness And Being Cared For
Josh GlaserI know that one of the deliberate choices that we made when we started doing retreats, uh, a few years ago, was the decision to, to go to a nicer place. We, we opted away from kind of the, the, uh, um, c- campsite or the, the, the, you know, mega, um, retreat centers where y- And there are some beautiful mega retreat centers. But where you kind of, you know, you walk through the cafeteria line, um, and the, you know, the beds are lumpy. Uh, which, uh, we're not shaking a stick at that. Like, I've been to some wonderful retreats like that, too. But what, w- what can you say about the value of kind of just, like, a, a beautiful retreat center?
Blake BrinkmanMan, the, the first thing that comes to mind for me is th- there's such a... So many of these things connect deep to the desires of our heart, right? And, uh, a couple that ping for me are the, the value of being taken care of, right? And how often that's been misconstrued or not handled with care. And we can almost have a core belief of we're not worthy of good things, or kindness. And so while we're doing all this depth of deeply vulnerable, heavy, but so good and freeing work, the, the sense of I'm in a beautiful place, I'm eating delicious food, I, in a comfy bedroom, et cetera. Like I get that sense of I'm being taken care of. I'm also taking care of myself, right? I'm worthy of value and care and these different things and elements. Um, and the other one that just comes to mind is just the beauty of God around, right? The beauty of creation. There's just, me and some guys at our Awaken retreat last year just sat in the cold river for a while and just soaking in the elements. There's just something you can't replicate of, wow, this is beautiful. This is gorgeous, and God is with us here in this moment
Josh GlaserBeautiful. Love it
Greg RuhlandThat makes me think of, like, there's a, there, there's a way I think our sex lives are to be a little bit of practicing for heaven. Like experiencing joy, experiencing peace, experiencing delight. Um, and there's a way as our sex lives begin to form us for the kingdom of God, it is a, a practicing of a slice of heaven. I'm guessing, Josh, you probably have some better words around that, um, 'cause you've been doing this way longer than me. but I think about a classy retreat center, uh, playing the same formative role. Um, like, as we let ourselves enjoy some beauty, abundance, a, a, a space that's rightly ordered, um, it is like practicing for heaven. And it might not ne- be... Like, some of us have the privilege of maybe our lives are like that already, where we're living around a lot of beauty, and we've got n- nice homes. Um, and even if we do, there's a way when we go away on retreat that if we, uh, are mindful about how we engage with that type of space, um, I call it practicing for heaven. Uh, and it gets, um, it just... think in the, in, in light of what we're trying to do with creating a retreat space around this part of our lives that is often so filled with shame, and, uh, uh, to begin to curate a healing space and a beautiful space, um, feels really redemptive for
Josh GlaserJa
Greg RuhlandUm, and I think it helps us get, just naturally brings our spiritual eyes towards heaven as we behold with our physical eyes the beauty before us.
Josh GlaserI love that. Yeah. One of the verses in my early recovery that just popped for me, and I, I'd read it, I'd read it I don't know how many times, but Romans 2:4, "It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance." And I think for so many of us, our experience around our sexual sin is is one of, of we shame ourselves, we beat ourselves up, we're frustrated with ourselves, we get angry at the, at our bodies even for what they experience and what they, um, what they elicit in us. Um, and we can, we can end up feeling kind of this animosity towards pleasure to- and towards beauty. And so, Greg, part of what you're describing is this, it's a, I love the word reordering. It is a reminder of the, that God himself, as the psalmist says, has eternal pleasures at his right hand. And our, our battle against sexual sin is not a battle against beauty. It's not a battle against pleasure. It is a battle for beauty, a battle for pleasure, because our sexual sin hijacks that stuff and makes it a source of misery for us, and makes us conflicted and confused. And so, um, yeah, I think there's something really beautiful in what you're describing. The... On a very basic level for me, one of the reasons I, I wanted us to do retreats in beautiful places was because of what I just described about that first retreat that I went on, where I found myself at this beautiful retreat center that was more expensive than I could afford, having a single room. I mean, and we have double rooms on this retreat, but, but there, um, you can opt in, I think, for a single. But, uh, but there, there was... I felt like I was being treated to something, and I felt that sense of kind of coming face to face with like, "I'm not worthy of this." Like, "What's happening here?" And really feeling like the Lord laid a banqueting table for me in the presence of my enemies. Like, and I was like, "Why are you treating me this way, Lord?" And I, I want something of that experience for the men and for the women who come to these retreats with Regeneration, for them to experience something of like the Lord setting something before them that is better than they, they could have invi- uh, created for themselves, both, both in the beauty around them, the food, the company, the ambiance, the program, the prayers. Because I do think that there is something really true about when we encounter the kindness of the Lord in spaces where we know we do not deserve it, that we begin to say, "I think I've been buying a lie that I need to take pleasure or comfort or my own wellbeing into my own hands and steal it from places that aren't allowed," versus, I think the Lord has something and his intentions to me are good, and I want to trust him in this moment, uh, to, to, to feed me good food." Um, so there's something I think that's reflected or that's manifested in, in a beautiful retreat center in that way. I hope. That's, that's my heart for wanting us to do it that way. So-
Blake Brinkmanit, it reminds me of the prodigal son story. You know, if we finally get the gumption to say, "Fine, I'll go to this retreat, but treat me like the pigs while I'm here." You know, and instead throws the robe on, the ring on, kill the fattened calf, throw an absolute feast, a, a party. And there is such a sense of coming home at these retreats, coming home to to ourselves, to the truth of our narrative, our story, whatever it is. And so I, I, I just resonate with what you're sharing there, Josh
Josh GlaserYeah. Beautiful. All right, last question. I'm not asking you to name names, but when you think of a, a characteristic or a situation, uh, who do you, who
Who Should Come And What Happens After
Josh Glaserdo you want at this retreat? When you think about... So, so I, I know we're gonna do a women's retreat, uh, the weekend of Oc- or the Saturday of Oct- uh, October 17th. But for the men's retreat we're gonna be doing this year, October 9th through 11th, who, who do you want there? Again, don't, don't name names, but, like, who's a guy that you would want who's listening that you'd want to see there?
Blake BrinkmanYeah, you know, it's a, it's a funny question 'cause this is not a cop-out answer. This is the real answer that popped into my head. But anyone, you know? It's just anyone who has any type of a, you described it earlier, Josh, of an expectancy of a humility of, "God, do what you will with me this weekend." I, uh, maybe I'll get some more qualities as I go, but a, a sense of I can just feel something. Something's disordered. Something's not right. It could be big, it could be small, but God, I just think I could benefit from this. Like there-- That's another thing I love about this retreat of it's, not fitting into a box. It's the Lord and guys and people meeting you wherever you're at. And so there's, there truly is something for everyone. And so if, if there's any piece of you, e-even an inkling, inkling of a mustard seed, if you will, I would get excited about you being there
Josh GlaserYeah. Love it. Love it. Greg, what about you?
Greg RuhlandUm, yeah. H- I always say spiritually hungry or people with desire people who want to want. They're like, "I think I want that. I'm not sure, but I wanna want it even more." Um, yeah, that, you know, we know, like, hey, pain is gonna come up over the weekend. Like, that probably is gonna happen for most guys. So we understand that you n- might not be craving the weekend itself in some regard. Uh, but there'll be parts of it you will. And if you, if, if as we've been talking, there's all of a sudden this desire in you, like, I want the fruit of that. Um, who I want there. And, you know, in my mind, uh, there's a wide spectrum of, of men and women at different stages of acting out or recovery. Like, that, that wherever you're at in your journey doesn't matter to me as much as that, that basic I've got some spiritual hunger and desire. There's something I feel drawned. Um, that's, that always creates a great-- Like, I love being in those spaces. Uh, especially like it when it's diverse too. Uh, when you got people at different stages of the journey, and you're all just desiring more, that is so inspirational for me
Josh GlaserYeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I'd say the same. The If you, if you want more, um, if you're, if you're tired and you want more, uh, this is a great place to come. And, uh, and even if you find yourself kind of like maybe even feeling a little bit guilty for wanting more, um, yeah, why don't you come? Why don't you come and see what the Lord might unfold? I love that, uh, somebody said that years ago, like, you know, um, just begin and, and watch what the Lord unfolds. So, uh, so here our invitation to you. We'll all three of us will be there. Uh, we've got, uh, uh, Aaron Taggart on our team. Our staff team will also be there, and then we've got a couple other volunteer leaders who are trained and equipped who are just waiting to pour into you that weekend and be praying, uh, for you for the weekend, all that stuff. So if you're, if you're interested, begin to a- begin to move forward. Um, click the link on the, on the show notes and see what the Lord unfolds
Greg RuhlandHey, can I ask you one question? Can we
Josh GlaserYeah.
Greg RuhlandI ask you a question, Josh?
Josh GlaserSure
Greg RuhlandUm, like both Blake and I have talked about, like, how, we often need to take in a retreat. Um, and then the, you know, there's a time afterward to take it in, breathe, let it settle in, see the fruit. Uh, so for the listener out there that isn't currently in a relationship with one of our coaches or one of our groups, would be your hope for aftercare for them?
Josh GlaserOh, yeah. Great question. Yeah. So I, I know there's some of our listeners have their recovery community. They, they have a coach or a therapist or a group that they're a part of, uh, but for whatever reason, they've... they, they dig the Becoming Whole podcast, so they're, they're here. Um, for, for them, I, I'd say, you know, k- keep going with your community, and we'd love to meet you. I, I... It is fun sometimes when, when somebody shows up, "Yeah, I've been listening to the podcast," and, you know, "I'm from a different, different tribe, but, but so love being a part of this," and they kinda dip in for this weekend. Um, but for those who don't, and, and this happens, too, sometimes the repa- Becoming Whole podcast or maybe someone's putting this in front of you, um, because you felt like you're on the outside of something or you're not sure that you really want to be engaging in a recovery community, this is a great way to kinda dip in for a weekend, take a plunge, and see what happens. And our hope would be, at minimum, that you'd leave knowing you're not alone. You met some brothers and you're like, "Oh, my gosh," like, "I'm connected." Sometimes guys walk away from the retreat, and they make friends. They're like, "Yeah, we're gonna keep in touch." Um, but we also hope that guys will, um... I mean, we've got these... We, we... You'll hear us say this on our podcast, these three Cs that we think are vital for ongoing freedom in the area of sexuality. One is just good content, and this podcast is hopefully one of those places. But often, when there's a curriculum that you can follow, it gives you a path to, to walk on, um, rather than just being tossed here and there. Uh, so curriculum, kind of content, followed by community, and there we really mean a cohort that's focused on recovery, and then some type of counsel or coaching. So if you're, if you're coming in, we're not gonna push this on you. Th... Every- everything we do here is voluntary, but we hope that you get a taste and say, "Okay, you know what? I think I'd like to get involved in a cohort of other men with Regeneration who are really getting after this stuff." And you'll meet some of those guys on this, on this retreat. Um, or, "Yeah, actually I'm, I'm... I wanna take the next step and go deeper because I... this retreat unpacked some stuff for me that I've never faced, and I wanna meet one-to-one with a, with a coach on Regen's team." And one of the great things about our team is that we don't have ego in the game, or where we do, we, we crucify it because if, if we don't have all that you need or there's a better resource, we're gonna point you there, uh, because we want y- we want you to be free. We want you to be walking in wholeness and joy. So, um, yeah, that's what I'd hope for guys coming. Does that answer your question? An- anything you'd add to that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Well, um, let me, let me just offer a prayer over guys listening and, uh, uh, men and women listening, um, which is simply this Lord, you have, uh, you modeled for us in your life on Earth retreat. And so I pray, Lord, if you are inviting a man or woman listening to take retreat, to join us, uh, October 9th, that weekend for the men, or October 17th for the women, would you just let them know? Lord, would you help, help them to hear you knocking, and would you provide all that they need to get there? Babysitters, uh, support from a spouse, financial support from friends, scholarship, whatever it is, Lord. We, uh, you know, time off if they're, if they're w- slated to work that time. Open the doors, Lord, for they be there. And, uh, we ask it, Lord, for their joy and their healing and their good, and we ask it for your glory. Pray these things in Jesus' name, amen. Thanks, friends. Thanks for listening. We hope to see you there
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